Imagine building an influencer agency it does over a million pounds in revenue and you work from home you literally put your pants on and you got all this cash coming in but you want to sell your business for over3 million have you got to make some changes I think you do listen
In hello gang welcome back um to the business broadcast or hello campers L to keep things continuity LED um my guest today is Jonathan Lundy or not just my guest JB’s welcome back JB hey everybody you going to do that joke about I’m not a statistic now yeah you’re not well
You’ve got what is the facts around podcast actually how many get past four that’s always interesting I think 80% drop off by episode seven is this is the generalized statistic I think that’s days it’s I think that’s a statistic for most things in life isn’t it yeah seven
Sessions with a PT seven years of marriage seven years of marriage yeah the sevene it yeah so uh where do we go from here quick we’re both over seven years in Rel relationships aren’t we yeah yeah me and that’s been together 11 years so I think we’re over the hill now
Fine yeah yeah how long have you been with oh about 20 years there you go bloody long time a long time long old time it’s not about sex anymore it’s about finding deeper relationship about Comfort isn’t it a leg tickle on the sofa yeah fine whatever I’m good with
That yeah there we go um yeah well JB um has a business called fonic media which helps people grow podcasts and he was the one that really pushed me to get my podcast going and I done 300 episodes and they were doing well with was in the
Charts and many of you have been listening for a long time and I just wanted to up the anti on the podcast and I thought a co-host producer type person um just to improve it by one two 3% and compound that over a period of time and
I said JP would you like come on and do that role and he said yeah absolutely because I think he knew that would elevate your position very quickly well hopefully yeah I mean if you like this video that you’re seeing it’s my team that have uh have produced it check out fonic
Media well there you go so that’s what we’re doing we’re going to ask the questions together um and I think sometimes what JB brings to the table is I’m doing very bad jokes no no no I’m doing higher level stuff and I know there are people that are not as far in
Their Journey that listen to the podcast although I’ve always decided he saying I’m L I’m low brow and you’re and you’re high brow no but I believe oh he thought about it then didn’t he no no I do believe that you might ask some of the questions that I just think everyone
Might assume they know but we’re still a podcast for established people we’re not a startup show um but there are people that are beginning their Journey that are thinking bigger and we want to have them here so I think I think you do that very well um now sometimes on the
Podcast I’ve had about 20 returning guests on the first 300 before you show up showed up showed up showed up um and and one of them is Jonathan Lindy he was on um but he’s the first time he’s been here on this visual format that’s the
Other big change if you just joined in we are now doing this on YouTube as well as all the audio podcast well on YouTube it people are loving it on YouTube yeah and you know what what’s really interesting is we’re actually getting more listens on the audio platform
Spotify Apple podcasts since it’s gone on YouTube so no cannibalization here so yeah that is interesting because that’s one of the things we often get with our clients like oh we’ve already got a good listening audience but what what if we split the audience and that is sometimes
A risk but what we found from your show is that there’s definitely there’s a YouTube audience and there’s a podcast audience and the two are not sort of cannibalizing each other is quite interesting really well actually helping I think the podcast and is interesting think before we get into Jonathan London
Me and chuds um I got chuds onto acquired which is another amazing you loving it chuds acquired yeah he’s loving it loves it yeah there’s another an amazing podcast that we recommend for entrepreneurs and business owners G aired two guys run it um amazing umit like us but they are definitely more
Highbrow than us well they’re Venture capitalists aren’t they they are actually you normally call those people um vulture capitalists okay fine but they work for VC firms and PE firms private equity and venture capitalist firms and they they discuss stories of really established well-known Brands Amazon Sony Walmart Costco um and I love
It um and um interesting Chad’s been listening to the audio version and on their audio version they say if you’re watching this visually we’re now bringing up the graph and uh all that sort of stuff and he said I’m going to go now check out their YouTube channel
So I really do think these things complement each other um talking about influencing that’s where our guest today comes that’s a lovely segue that’s a lovely little segue that is you you you took yourself off down a path and you pulled yourself back if you don’t get a
Podcast award this year then I’m I’m questioning the Integrity of those Awards you’ve only got paid 498 quid to join in okay um so so so Jonathan who came on um a year ago has got an influencer agency so these are people that look buff I
Suppose look like you not so much bit like bit like you what I want to become yeah um how many how many 5K you on this week i’ done four in seven days I mean come on guys I it’s only me clapping you but in this gigantic place that’s good
Going though is it yeah and I’ve I’ve worked out on the other day so I’m on a 7-Day run of exercise I mean I can’t wait to see the results I’m I’m scared if you if you turn up in the summer six pack abs ripped to bits like
I mean you’re just a triple threat then aren’t you why a triple threat well because you got the intelligence you got the success and if you got if you have the washboard stomach as well humor oh the humor you’re you’re the personality well so look let’s talk about this business so he’s
Got gy fluenc decom gy fluenc do agency and dogfluencer do agency so he we we’re out doing too many jokes he he if you’ve if you’ve got dog products and you want them content mark marketing led by influencers he finds all those people for you in the gym space and the dog
Space the pet space pet space very um Recession Proof by the way if anyone is worried about economic downturns I absolutely know that the pet space is one of the most Recession Proof Industries ever makes sense doesn’t it you doesn’t matter what sort of situation you’re find it’s in you’re
Always going to look after that loved one be it on two legs or four legs aren’t you really absolutely yeah he was on a year ago wasn’t he did he have the pet stuff then I don’t I can’t I mean I sort of vaguely remember the conversation but I’ve done so many of
These podcasts now it’s um it’s all just goes by the time I finished um but I do vaguely remember it um so that that’s it you want to tell yeah the snapshot of where he’s at right now start has he got team members yeah how long has he been
Trading Z to three years monthly estimated monthly Revenue 50k per month team members yes this is interesting uh if so how many 30 subcontract contractors so this is where you’d be like well they’re not really your your team so this is going to be interesting don’t if them subcontractors are the
Influencers in this case for sure don’t slag off influencers too much because you we could be in for a bit of the cash he making our own no we not sling off influencers but this this could be like another Revenue stream this could fold into the Empire yeah you could get
People fat oh shut up all right challenge number one is are you really knocking me for a shirt when you’ve come again like Ken from the movie have a word challenge number one time management challenge two personal branding which we said in the pre- chat before we hit the record that’s quite
Interesting obviously a guy who’s in charge of people’s influence not being able to do his own personal branding quite correctly and Challenge number three accountants exclamation mark exclamation mark exclamation mark so it sounds like that’s a proper challenge um where do you want the business to be in
One year 1.2 million in yearly Revenue six agencies 14 websites 1 million monthly website visitors and 100,000 agency members what does the business look like when you finished exited building enough value so for a brand or an agency to acquire it do you make the
Profit that you want if so what is it yes approximately 30% net I he’s the first person who’s actually said he makes the profit that he wants to make that since we very comes up I mean this 30% net profit is very good but as he grows his business that will
Shrink uh and what do you do day to-day in with your time in the business future business developing launching the new agencies overseeing social sales and content and he’s got some questions I think I just need to clarify there when you’ve got a small business the amount
Of profit that you keep out of your turnover is usually much higher so when I was a kid’s Entertainer and I I was a magician gigging I would turn 100 Grand and because I got tips I actually made more than 100 Grand than 100 Grand yeah
Um and what happens as you grow then you get a PA or then you employ somebody you need an office and so your 30% net profit shrinks that’s what I just yeah I had my accounts um sent back to me this this week for the corporation tax and I
Found that out I was like oh I’ve worked harder last year I turned more money I kept less that fantastic well done me I’ve gone backwards that’s a year of my life I’ll never get back anyway um it’s always joyous on this podcast right should we get him on should we get on
Jonathan and find out about JY flu if we can get ourselves a little gig bit little my protein gig or something like that did did we do the what does he do day today with his time in the business yeah business developing launching the new agencies and overseeing social sales
And content just in case anyone like you wasn’t listening correctly sorry should we get them on now do it Jonathan good morning how are you sir good morning I’m great thanks how are you guys we are doing very well I speak for both the uh the buff gimms as
We like to call ourselves Jim Jim and Jim that works doesn’t it um so let’s go through the give us a little summary of of your business in sort of 60 seconds M have we summarized it correctly is yeah pretty much so all side with gy influencers decom which is like a freeto
Use Health and Fitness website like Men’s Health Women’s Fitness those type of magazines online um that’s in 11 countries now each country with their own Doom essentially for news and reviews in that area so if you log in in Dubai it’ll be about Dubai gyms and UK
Would be UK of course um out of that gy F’s agency launched which is the influencer network um under that because of the system I created we’ve launched dog fluences travel fluences food influencers and we’ve got 11 more coming one interesting one for you guys it’s podcast fluences um so hopefully get
Some sponsorship guys on that um and yeah it’s kind of just building it all out building the team a few things did change since I reapplied to be on here with the subcontractors uh turning into full-timers a bit so all of that to explain but yeah basically a a free
Resource earning money as an affiliate and you know tency agreements and then an agency earning money through influencer activations um and Market I just because I’m a bit thick so I just need to completely understand this can you give me an avatar transaction of when someone pays you a pound what would
You actually do as a deal so yeah so the agency for example yeah the the agency side they would pay for a influencer to make a piece of content and to post it on their profile so that could be one of the the ways we earn we have a mass gifting Pro uh
Program where a a brand can work with a 100 influencers um and they would pay for the output of all of them promoting it on their you know Instagram feeds and stories and then for the.com side of things we earn money through affiliation so if someone clicks a affiliate link
From a review article we earn commission uh but lots of those Brands then go ahead and pay a flat fee per month for banners further editorials uh back links and all that good stuff so do you so if I would I come to you like as a talent management and give
You all my leads or do you sort of work as a hybrid approach so they can do their own stuff and you just get them more stuff if you’re the influencer yeah so the influencers literally signed to us um non- exclusively so we’ve got 5 a half thousand influencers signed across our
Agencies now um and we basically promote them to Our Brands um or they kind of automatically work with some Brands based off things we know about them like I mentioned the mass gifting if we know we have 800 vegans on there and it’s a new plant-based product they would
Receive it know what to do with it pre-contracted to do so um but we then also do have talent agents such as football agents who sign up all of their talent to us and then we kind of give them extra work and extra options as as we go
Along and so if for example sorry mate if like say my protein comes to you and says right we want to beginning of the football season we want to get to young athletic males would you go out to do you create a uh like a campaign that’s Bes spokes
You might go right okay well Ashley Kane’s got a really big profile he’s he’s got you know 1.2 million followers or and do you sort of like handcraft it or do you put it out to the influenc to go right who wants to pick up this one
And then you just do an equal share of the money with them how does that sort of it work yeah we we’ basically handcraft it so if they came to us and said we want 10 influencers who are all male 20 to 30,000 followers whatever it might be we
Would go into our network of the those 5 and a half thousand people we’ve signed and we would spew out whoever suited that brief they would then select who they want they would pay us we then do all the agreements with the influencers they complete and get paid um based on a
Rate they’ve already set so say some say a football has signed up and charges ,000 pound a post we know that and then we can add our mark up on we can bulk it into a package and win on some lose on the others whatever kind of hits that
Package and you know secures enough us enough profit so using JB scenario my protein is that a big brand for the gym space is it yeah you you’ll find out in about six months so if my protein give you £100,000 what you’ll go and put
80,000 of it to work and keep 20,000 or something like as an example something like that yeah yeah and what about getting the leads are you getting enough leads yeah we we do really well um I think I got very lucky cuz I cuz I own
The do originally as an affiliate I had a lot of in to all the brands you know I was already working with you know my proam we work with as an affiliate for example hello fresh whoever the first clients were we already kind of had a
Contact so we said oh we we actually launched this agency do you want to give it a go and then it kind of snowboard from there so our first few clients as an agency were like hello Fresh The Body Shop is that how you got your first
Customer yeah so so basically we started middl Manning it accidentally we were talking to all these Brands and working with them on that sort of you know written content and website space and then they were kind of saying oh we hate influencer marketing this agency’s done this wrong but then we’re also talking
To all the influencer and athletes at our event days and just you know generally knowing them and they were saying they hate Brands because of x y and Zed so we we started middl Manning the odd one you know making like literally £1 or whatever it might be if
We were lucky but setting someone up for a really good campaign them getting paid brand getting happy and then literally 13 months ago we split the two and that’s where it became Doom an agency and then I created a kind of CRM and a system and payment portals to make that
Kind of effortless um so it works exactly as the brand wants it and infl needs it I think people are genuinely interested in this JP yeah definitely just one of the sort of like the logistical things then so are you going and doing an individual contract
Per deal with each of the influence so you know what their rate card is for example but then you go oh you fancy this one yes we’re be in for it then you have to go back and say to the the brand here’s the short list of 50 you know
Pick 20 out of these 50 then you go back to them and have to do an individual contract per Post Yeah so so they’re pre-contracted the way we’ve kind of got it set up so for instance we would already have promoted their profiles to the brand so say the brand wanted 10 we
Would give them a good selection of 50 they choose their 10 we then go to that 10 and say here’s the offer accept or decline most of the time they accept because we know them pretty well we know everything about them you know from them joining if somebody says no we just give
The brand an extra option um it literally takes seven days to complete a full campaign so if a brand wanted one influencer with one piece of content or a 100 it all is done in seven days content handed in so so it’s quite a smooth system kind of set up now what
From sign off to actual delivery of the content being posted out there is a week yeah impressive just a just get from the moment they receive the product right gotcha okay and just I think what’s really interesting for for listeners if you’re thinking oh how can I sort of
Steal some of these ideas from my business Marsh Farm we use loads of influencers especially around out big events to get people to come so we send them to Marsh farm for free um and we said can you just make some stories about it the F Christmas event our
Pumpkin patch quite big on don’t you it works amazingly and what I’ve actually found is actually the people have got 5,000 10,000 20,000 they get I think better results and more engagement than the people they’ve got a million plus always we got Mrs hinch she comes all
The time um but what’s your view on that just for listeners uh J yeah definitely um so I I think our average is like 18,000 followers or something on one of our certain campaigns that we do so where brand works with a 100 influencers at once uh with like a combined 1.8
Million and that is that is really The Sweet Spot in that 2000 plus range where it’s friends who are actually following them it’s people who are very much alike I think what kind of happens obviously is a girl gets out of love Island for example she might
Be followed by 95% of people that don’t actually suit anything she does or knows it’s just they’ve seen her on TV whatever um but when it’s someone with that 20,000 following you can probably assume it’s it’s actually people who know who relate who like because there’s
Been no stepping stone of TV it’s just their content has has connected um so yeah definitely I always so what I’m trying to say for in for B small business owners listening if you reach out to some of these influencers you know for whatever your space is you can
Get such good returns compared to say Google PPC or Facebook ads or Instagram ads and and I think people well I’m just going to give them stuff for free and a couple hundred quid like I don’t really want to do like something inside them it’s just no I’m not doing that what
We’re going to do is give zuk £5,000 instead to Larry and serge cuz they they need £500 more of your D so yeah there we go and you get content as well so content that the real win there is you know yes you can pay for Google
Click or whatever it’s just you know it’s text on a on a screen but if Mrs hinch is seen at your your park that’s a great story you can use forever and clip it onto your social proofing and content is king So I always kind of like to push
That that route which is what we do a standard with our agency if you work with an influencer they post it on their profile but you own that raw content forever as standard to repurpose forever so that kind of always helps with like an Roi and and kind of lifelong wins and
The influencer knows that from day one and then literally for years to come you can rinse and repeat put on your website do an ad with it YouTube short Instagram Tik Tok it can just catch Wildfire uh with that content there we go well 21 minutes and 44 seconds in We Now
Understand your business let’s try and help you grow it um so so we asked you your three biggest challenges lot we do with everyone that comes on the show and challenge number one was time management talk to us yeah I think probably just like every
Founder um trying to kind of run um in the hamster wheel it’s kind of where where do I need to focus on per day emails are always going off phones always going off the zooms that you know like everything is all the time um I also have a family I also am trying
To get you know fit again and be a normal human and it’s just kind of always that key thing of how do I always find the perfect Focus per day at the right point and maybe there is no answer for that because it’s just that’s what
We have to do but I’m looking at my business as a whole thinking if I take my eye off the Doom then affiliate earnings come down or traffic gets low if I focus on the agency Revenue goes up but then if I swap it around then it you
Know there’s always a really hard Middle Ground of what is my big win here and obviously because I’m building for an exit I kind of don’t just need to focus on revenue and profit I need to focus on the brand and the traffic and the
Mailers or whatever so how the hell do I do it properly and consistently well I’ve got some great ideas uh because something that’s really crucial to that little monologue of yours there was I’m building for an exit which does make the whole process much easy because we know
What we’re trying to do but I want to just part that to the right and come back to that in just a moment and now I want to say there’s some really good news here is this is a profitable business you’re generating positive cash flow so you’re not in a business that’s
On fire would that be a fair assumption yeah yeah so we’re not worried about how we’re going to meet payro or how we’re going to pay the bills we should be now investing in management to operate the business so that you can grow the business and if
You want to exit this business in 3 years or five years or two years the biggest thing that’s going to reduce your multiple on your exit value is the lack of management unless you’re going to stay in and run it are you going to
Stay in and run it or are you going to disappear disappear so now the best investment that you can make into your business is an effective management team using the philosophy of E m equals s which is JB entrepreneurship plus management equals success absolutely if you’re playing James in Clair Bingo you
Can tick that one off your cter yes so you you’ve got to be growing the business not operating it you’ve got to be just focusing on bringing in more sales more income uh because we’re working to exit day um now if you’re scared about bringing in an MD and do
You think that’s going to hurt you it cost too much uh this year then bring in a PA just to take over all of the menial rubbish time Vampire sucking tasks so that you can go out there and get the next big influencer in or the next big
Contract in you know get hallof fresh to sign into a contract because all of those things are going to help your exit value you know contracts big Brands um residual repeatable income um you got to sack yourself from this business if you want it to be worth a lot of money what say
You yeah yeah that makes sense and with with my hirings recently so I I had a lot of subcontractors which when we mentioned that 30 odd that includes you know writers graphic designers developers designers all everyone um what I’ve done recently is I’ve got a full-time editor and format for the
Dooms I’ve got a full-time graphic designer full-time web development um no cuz I I I don’t want an office and it’s sense um but they are employed by me but just not in in an office environment but yes or directly why do you why did you not want an
Office um uh 21 years never worked in an office did had to do a few months in in an out of one hated it um I believe it limits hiring the best because then you have to go local or move um and I’m really happy with my my staff I think
They’re the best ever um and none of them would come to an office located here or there or anywhere so I prefer working this way personally and I feel like I literally have the best talent in you know my graphic designer is in Vietnam not purposely it was just he is
He was doing little bits his time was getting worse so I said well do everything for me that wasn’t a conscious decision of paying less cuz I paid him a UK uh salary so they’re very well looked after um but I feel it would really limit Talent um essentially I
Want to have like a massive net to be able to say if the best person’s in Australia then that’s cool if the best person’s in Devon that’s great if they’re in Scotland it doesn’t matter um and obviously I hate office environments so I feel I would be hurting my business rather than helping
It with one I I mean I get that theory but you told me you want to sell the business and they are going to want to meet the management team they’re going to want to know where the board meetings are I this is you telling me this you
Know if you want to have a lifestyle business and you just all you know work from there’s going to have to be an element of where is this touch it feel it because that is how if you’re going to sell this to private equity and stuff like
That they’re going to say well where are the team you know if they’re based in Vietnam if they’re based in the Philippines and you know that that is I’m just trying to help you get maximum value at sell um and I think that needs to be
Thought about I think there is quite a confusing message out there about stuff like that because I look at who has exited um and they haven’t had a base and they’ve exited for for 50 60 70 million in some cases one did have an office but lost all the value um after
They exited the business plummeted and I kind of look at and I think well I’ve done this essentially as the only salesperson as the setup as whatever with just this great little team boted about is that not super valuable to a massive agency out there or a brand who
Owns you know Brands and agencies to say well we’ve got all the team anyway if you you and your little team have done this remotely and you know say I do hit the uh over 1 million this year and and grow continually is that not a benefit
Do you not think for them to say God you’ve done a million yourself with this setup we can now plug this in and do 20 million 30 million yeah maybe uh what what what what do you want to sell it for yeah what’s your number um if I can hit the targets in
The next three years I’d be looking at over 30 million what to exit for 30 million I mean I think I don’t know I mean I’ve got some experience in this but my my experience would be would someone pay 30 million for something with remote workers you got what what are they
Buying in that instance you got some contracts that sort of quite flexible with influences and you’ve got some short-term agreements with like a hellofresh for example like like Jim saying that the value for an exit is either the systems the processes the management team the contracts the
Software the software and all that stuff and it sounds like and that’s what I feel I’ve built is the software the systems the data the database I mean if I have over 100,000 people signed if I have over a million monthly traffic it becomes quite appealing to you know
These companies who own who own a lot of you know editorial websites and and papers and whatnot and then also Brands who can instantly plug into that um the way our the way it runs is nobody else does it and I feel that’s the benefit have you built the software in the back
End then yeah from scratch yeah oh wow okay so did you get a big R&D did you get a big R&D tax rebate for that that’s all in the process with my new accountants that was one of the bad points Challenge three yeah I mean I just from my experience what when
Companies get maximum value even software techie companies you know like why did Zuckerberg pay so much money for pre-revenue Instagram is because of the management and the people inside in stagram yeah it was only eight people wasn’t it out of a little office in New
York he still paid a billion for it I it’s San Francisco actually just uh I I think if I didn’t have but but I do my experience and I’ll let you come in in just a second is the quality of the management operations team dictates the multiples that you
Will get for a business so if you are very profitable but there’s no management there but you’re less profitable and you’ve got an amazing management team in many cases you would get a higher multiple because they want to buy into the talent and the team and you just need to keep
That in mind and I do speak from some level of experience here on that if I because obviously with with this setup I’m doing and like I need to hire someone in sales and an affiliate manager next that’s who I’m kind of interviewing currently would you say if
I could do this remotely with you know the full-time staff but hire a really good MD under me to look after them all do you think that’s a good stepping stone for Me Maybe to try that way that there is somebody in charge if you go to
Sell your business and you say I’m the money maker I’m the MD they’re going to remove you and they’re going to think well who’s going to run this business we are going to Discount the multiples times net profit or times ebit D because you’re not around you’re the
Key man aren’t you yeah so you’ve got if you’ve built a commercially profitable Enterprise that works without you in it your business explodes in value period gotcha it definitely works without me that that’s a good thing now I could I could drop down dead tomorrow would run luckily does it because you said
Challenge number one is time management I’m doing all these things because I’m relaunching them all so because like I’ve got the dotom makes you know five figures a month in just affiliation the agency is just sales and most of it’s inbound or referrals or whatnot at my
Time is obviously I’m like I did the 11 more websites I’ve doing like you know a dozen more agencies I’m building more and more but the current setup if I just had so so from a perspective bu and let’s imagine their private equity and Venture Camp they expect that grow stuff
To be happening but say you’re the role of CEO at the moment or MD you’re you know deciding on what we’re going to do next yeah that that’s the role you’re in so you’re not looking after day today would that be fair to say but you are looking after tomorrow’s next income
Generation yeah the day today is definitely slipping out of my hands now which is nice I’m almost out one more higher and I’m and I’m done um to get the maximum value for exit which is what you said you want to do the money maker that’s next in line after you should be
You know not now but in the next 24 36 months you’ve got to say look this is the money maker oh God they’re so much better than me they signed up this contract they did this contract they’re launching this they’re launching that and those people are out there strong
Effective MDS and CEOs and they a’t cheap and they’ve got elements of entrepreneurialism in them but they are more business people not just entrepreneurs and that’s like someone really effective imagine a good head teacher at a school you know you find these great head teachers we’re going to
You know start doing Latin or we’re going to build a science lab and we’re going to extend the school and we’re going to go for this award you know they don’t own that school it’s just that they’re very driven to drive that school forward to be the best possible School
In the county or the country does that make sense yeah yeah you got to find I like I was so nervous I think like I say like the office world and whatever and I’m happy with that but I think I was nervous to think God do I need a manager
In each section do I need this but the way you’ve explained it of just the best MD bringing them in making sure they understand it and outperform it makes way more sense than that suits I think the way I want to run the company yeah and Absol but the the
The challenge you all have there is you know Community Practice learning is how we learn best our children learn from their parents yeah because they’re around them and that’s how you develop great kids yeah you yeah you know Children Learning in the classroom with an amazing teacher that coaches them to
Learn that best stuff compared to a Naf teacher you know you can get completely different results from a teacher from the same kids from the say kid yeah yeah absolutely and I you know you just see it um My worry is how do you you know develop a mentor someone from afar would
You say that the next move for someone like Jonathan then is a great MD coo CEO kind of role that is more local so he can even if it’s like a spaces or a we work and you get together once a week from my opinion yeah I just think you
Know when you’re reading coaching and mentoring You’ got to be with them all the time like do you want to have a baby and have them living in Singapore and you living in London it sounds great and you know that’s my view on it yeah
You know and as you get bigger and if you want to get maximum value I think I think all that stuff’s important and I have helped and gone through this stuff and I cannot emphasize how much these people that are buying with other people’s money so that’s Venture Capital Pension funds private
Equity just are obsessed with the management before the profitability mean profitability comes in really quickly second that be I mean they not going to buy something completely but that it is all about management first what what are your thoughts on that a great a great sort of second in
Command that is a bit where are you based uh I’m in Durham okay yeah I think I I think I need something like that and I think I’ve tried to develop some of the people I’ve had with me already into that role maybe and it maybe just hasn’t
Hit me like I need to do more with them or find some other people I am speaking to some really good kind of like brand owners who are you know helping along the way and there are definitely great people out there and I think you just want to work from home and I
And I get all that and and you’re doing some great stuff with it but if you want to turn this into an investment you’re going to have to see what those people like to buy because you have you ever heard the phrase you are not your
Customer yeah it’s a big thing that I like to remind business owners like business you that’s too cheap but most people earn £27,000 a year and they’ got as a combined family2 200 worth of disposable income a month so you are not your customer and in this situation the
Person that’s buying you will be snotty Pension funds that have given money to private equity and Venture capitalists and just just put yourself in their shoes what do they want to get maximum value for your liquidity day your exit day yeah that’s what I thought I was
Kind of going down the line of I could just hand it over and they could run with it it is a quite a a swift system it’s a small thing yeah it’s a small thing yeah but like they’re going to say well who’s who’s writing the code where’s the programmers you know so
They’re all with us and they’d go with them so I’ve got all of those but they’re all over they office are they are they International as well no so web and development writers and sales and affiliate will all be UK then it’s just graphics and editor and a couple of
Writers that how big is this team as it stands at the moment you said you had 30 subcontractors this time last year when you had the chat how big is the actual py employed setup now so currently there are five full-time including myself and then a dozen subcontractors but the when
I say subcontractors that might be someone who’s getting paid £1 pound once a month um you know it ranges and I’ve tried to bring them all in I was using too many graphic designers now I’ve got a full-time one um so your Cod for example are they are they UK based are
They yeah yeah and how often do you meet up with the sort of the UK K team as a as a squad I’ve never met a member of my team in in two and a half years yes I mean I I think an investor will struggle with that big time see and
This is this is the because you’re you’ve been through the process of this before and these are the bits that people who are exting don’t don’t talk about you know how important because again the the ego story of a sale is you know James eclair has sold this thing
Fantastic but actually what they’re looking at is like okay cool he founded this thing but actually what they’re buying in in your instance is that fantastic management team the systems the processes that’s probably why s like a Jonathan hearing it second Jan if you
Do go through a big S so let’s say you want to sell for 30 million quid you’re going to have to write CVS for all of your management team and they’re going to say right we want to meet them all together yeah and then you’re going to
Say well I haven’t actually met them yet be nice we do together you know like they are gonna want to do that you know and interview them to make sure that you know so just think about all those things yeah I I mean i s take my doth my
Cat to you that you’ve managed to build a million pound plus business without meeting anyone you know putting your pants on sitting in the office or sitting in the lounge sorry not the office and um you know cracking on and doing some good money and you’re obviously smart and stuff like that but
You know I I asked you what it looks like when it’s finished or JB asked you and you said I’m building this thing to exit which is a brilliant clear definitive goal so we’re working towards that and we want to get maximum value from this thing um and I’m just
Giving you my two pence on what will help you get maximum value but we’re not here to tell you what to do you can carry on and do it as you like right shall we get some question I mean because I’m worried about time and there’s some good questions that you
Want to ask me on the accountants piece um uh I I know you got five questions uh but I’m just going to quickly skip over the other ones as well time management and personal branding um what do what do you mean by personal branding this is you building a personal
Brand as well yeah so I hadn’t ever posted on a social media platform the last time you and I spoke um and I was obviously knowing it it was important I I’ve done well on LinkedIn I think I started posting there seven months ago I
Get a lot of business from it and I meet a lot of great people but outside of LinkedIn I do nothing I know for the other James the podcast set up the the stuff here does you know I’d love to talk about that as well but I do always
Feel like what can I say to give value like that’s the only reason I’d post on socials like so interesting is it he got influence rages here and has never tried to influence it’s just brilliant it’s like the the people that make all the money in entertainment art the people
You don’t know the producers the behind the scene the script writers uh the songwriters um my my view on personal branding is you absolutely have to want to be able to do it to do well out of it m and I know lots and lots of multi-millionaires very successful
People you would never know who they are and they’re just not comfortable doing what we’re doing yeah and I think that that needs to be number one if you’re not comfortable about it just do something else you you’re obviously doing okay you’ve built a business you’re doing over a million in Revenue
Hardly anyone bloody does that let’s be absolutely clear most businesses are micro um but if you are starting to see the results in LinkedIn and it’s growing your business then maybe you pay someone else to be the influencer for your business I always like telling little story about um a group of estate
Agencies I spoke at their conference the owners absolutely got the point of influence marketing brilliant they they were you move um they’re quite a big estate agency Independence Day agent and I spoke at their conference um well we don’t want to be doing Instagram stories they paid Carol Smiley for two years to
Be the influencer for you move and she done Instagram stories and videos and blogs and talks and thought do you know there is another way to skin the cat yeah you don’t have to you know the CEO of Warner Music is not the influencer we’ll just do a deal with Taylor Swift
And let her be up front and I’m sure he’s scn his pennies quite yeah yeah easily um I be careful I say A friend of mine hasn’t posted on social media for years and he’s just gone and raised 30 million quid based on the the um
Credibility of a pitch deck and he’s not done one single post didn’t need it because again people like me and probably you Jim would go oh you got to be out there post your brand you just don’t not necessarily but I think in your space I think it’s difficult to be
Growing what you’re growing and not documenting what you’re doing a little bit to be to be brutally honest but like I say it maybe it is maybe the maybe the the COO or the MD or the person you bring in maybe it is someone who is an
Influencer who is in front of a camera is is someone who wants to who actually wants to do it because I think James is exactly right if you if you don’t if you haven’t got the inclination to want to do it yeah don’t start no just don’t I
Think that was a light bu moment that that made so like honestly when James said that I was like that that actually summarizes a massive reason to get the MD have that as the face of this business have them you know be if they’re an influencer if they’re social
If they’re good in front of the camera they can do it obviously all the the Instagrams we’ve got for the businesses are you know we use influencers for those just nothing for you know my holding company or like us as a a business so that is a brilliant
Brilliant reason to get an MD I I reckon out of your out of your database of 5 and a half thousand influencers or 100,000 influencers there is going to be an absolute there’s going to be a James Smith there’s going to be a body coach there’s going to be someone who’s not
Only a great set of muscles but he’s actually got a real real smart brain and they could come into this absolutely idea I’m annoyed that I didn’t think yes yeah finally got a good idea in there worth me turning up wasn’t it yeah and that shirt what’s your what’s your take um
Jonathan just because I know we’re sort of getting a bit short on time what’s your take on um two mediocre sort of late 30s early 40s guys who are generally known for more business stuff but they’re trying to get fit as a as a YouTube series that my protein want to
Sponsor let’s see what I’m doing here what do you think what say you um can’t speak for my pro team but you could definitely get advertising through us for podcast for YouTube everything that easily absolutely well matter we’re just about quality we don’t need to have
Advertisers do we do you really think we should yeah but I think it just motivate us would it and then cold mornings you’re right at the moment your four your four runs in on those cold mornings if it’s Nike we’ll do it yeah Nike or nothing Jonathan if you can Braker that
Deal for us any of the any of the Lou Tong moo handsome Brands anything good like that yeah depend think more pedigree chum oh he might have a point there to be fair he might have a point um right I just want to I know we got 10
Minutes to uh we do our next one um but you’ve got five questions you’d like to ask us can you read them out or do you want JB to read them out I don’t think I wrote them down I’ve got them in front of me so um
But we’ve got to play our um serious question jingle just because we got it um so you asked five questions should I own a physical shop random one but incredible for brand awareness rather than profit uh number two I can’t seem to get myself out there on social media
I’ve still got yeah we’ve covered that while if you’re not going to bother doing it um three how quickly did James hire and leverage himself in this manner as soon as I possibly could I’ll answer that one straight away because of time done uh the fourth question was how did
You get over the This sounds too good to be true question well it usually is that is true that’s that one covered as well and question number five I’ll play the jingle again because I’ve run out of time um should I separate the businesses or have them all under one current
Company umbrella dogs gyms travel websites and agency plus products coming soon what’s best for looking for an exit that’s potato potato and that’s a that I need more time to answer that correctly I wouldn’t want to just give a flip and one on that um they’ll be
Buying all of them probably best talk to your accountant why quick hunch is just be one big company and maybe have a little sub ones off um usually people have like me have lots of different companies because of risk you know if we killed someone in our roller skating
Rink we want that to happen a marsh Farm or if we poison someone in our ice cream company we don’t want it to affect our day nurseries so there is sometimes just not Financial but also safety benefits um and if you’re going to Hive one off
And keep the rest that’s a reason to have multiple companies but if you’re going to sell the whole shooting match uh it might be better to keep it in one company but I think that’s a better one for a good accountant to ask that knows
You inside out and upside down if I had six hours with you I think I could give you a good answer but the first one the first question fascinates me about a man that only wants to work at home what do you want to shop for selling your dog
Food no so the shop one is um an idea I had a while ago because obviously I’m getting a lot of website traffic now so there’s an easy plugin as an online store um to you know instantly instantly start selling products that’s such a supplements in the gym World um the idea
Is obviously that would be a premise that I could have you know podcast Studios other things in the background but it would attract a lot more clients to us because we would be selling four Brands we would do it social I think you should do that but think of it as your
Office podcast Studio space where your md operates from when you going to sell your business for millions and millions of pounds you can say to these big investors come and see this this is us and this is the culture and this is the people we’ve got 30 remote workers that
Work solely for us but this is the internal head office team that’s going to give you your return on your investment I think the gym Shark model is the one to look at here look what they’ve done you know got to a billion dollar valuation as a company and then
Went and and opened up on Regent Street and they’ve not done that really just for profitability they’ve done that for footprint for profile for brand but more than anything the big thing that they’ve pushed is and I’m sure you’ve been watching this very closely a lot of your
The gang on your database are probably you know sponsored athletes of theirs as well the the whole thing was about Community you know 300 influences on launch day they still they do runs from there every Saturday don’t they so I think it’s a potentially a really good
Play I think following that model it works and also you know looking at the Ben Francis story there is no way that that business was run remotely he had all of his best mates didn’t he and all of that team working from you know literally from his spare bedroom you
Know growing that building culture by having a close-knit community which drives profitability in a business um that Center that they’ve just opened up in the Midlands I used to go to the gym next door it’s unbelievable this place is a gigantic warehouse but like a good
Quarter of it is cut cut off just for the internal staff gym because again culture Community yeah so it’s just you know successfully closed just just one other quick point on you know looking at this from holistically from all of our listeners I I think Ben Francis and what
He’s done with Jim shock is a just a textbook proof of how good influence of marketing can be for your business CU that’s really you know what got that blow wasn’t it yeah 100% he’s super smart isn’t he I’ve watched he is you know he’s um very quiet and subdued
Isn’t he but he obviously knows how many beans made five yeah and he and he was um you know you look at a couple of the fitness brands that were sort of birthed at the same time you got grenade and look you know what’s happened Alan Barrett grenade was all done via
Influencers and sort of standout marketing pieces Jim shark exactly the same you look at what horos is now doing with all of his gym stuff you know he’s built brand he’s he’s drawing massive attention um but again if you look at all of those businesses actually that’s a really good that’s a really
Interesting point so what horos he’s built what’s he done now 10 years later he’s just built and bought um a massive office block for his 50 odd staff while he’s getting ready for valuation to to sell for a billion dollars yeah I mean just talking about him as well um me and
Chads often go on his Instagram profile and just look at his arms yeah getting you you’re like the horos of of Rochford how he’s I don’t know how he does that I know he does it he looks I know exactly how he does it and that’s the end of
That that’s the end of this show maybe forever yeah we’re just saying he works out and he’s out very he works out very hard and he must rest to recover that well I would say com very quickly well there you go guys thanks for listening to the business broadcast don’t forget
Um who is um producer number two in the background taking all notes when are we launching our tickets to come see this podcast live in London soon anytime soon nice loose deadline there P when yeah we’re waiting we’re going to be doing it at the Les Square theater
Tracy my PA is organizing that but please keep an eye on our website J sinclair.edu style Meetup you could you could run a jog yeah around High Park yeah maybe do workout then we could do the show but I’m looking forward to doing this because I
Think it’s going to be great yeah 30 quid that’d be roughly our tickets uh price and um it’s going to be good right in the middle of London before you go Jonathan because I know we still got you hanging on the line where can people find out more about the brilliant stuff
That you’re up to because it sounds like you’re you’re running something very very interesting you’re moving at PACE if people want to follow the journey obviously they’ve got to hunt you down on LinkedIn if you bothered to post on there that day but where can they find
Your your websites and stuff where’s the best place to go yeah gy gy influencers decom and then gy influencers agency and then dogfluencer agency Trav fluenc agency anything fluences do agency love it 80% of consumers that purchase something after 80% of consumers purchase something after seeing it recommended by an influencer there you
Go I agree is is the modern tell your mates isn’t it there a great new restaurant in the town 100% John thanks for being on mate by the way uh you’re you’re a smart cookie and you know I just want to just one more time tell you when you’re exiting your business it’s
All about the management team to get the maximum valuations don’t forget it my friend thank you they going you have some great people come on though me he’s got some DNA good DNA isn’t he I wonder what he’s going to go and do and do you know what
Teaches me something 1.2 million of Revenue in your pants in your house no office do you ever look at it and go or I could do a bit of that yeah I just don’t believe it works to go to the next level well what is the next level where
Are you trying to get to if he wants to get 30 million quid yeah that that’s going to be very difficult in his yeah I think so do you ever do you ever do you ever if he wants to sell it for two three million quid possible but like
Like on a Saturday yeah you know like on a Saturday and you see these like influences and they’re kicking back got their feet out they’re doing the coffee like oh I’ve got the you know the coffee shot on on uh on their insta stories and you’re whole assing over to Lakeside or
You’re going over to you know look check out your M much hard so I I um when I was an Entertainer I had some good high-profile Stacy Solomon was one of our clients and she was one of the smartest business commercially Savvy hardworking people I ever come across
She’s very was she one of your entertainers well no I entertain for her children and oh okay fine yeah you know and you know she was smart yeah I you can see that she’s a business woman you know and she was you know she had management and employees and you know
After X Factor yeah after X Factor but she’s even another level now and anyone that can stay in entertainment for more than 5 years she’s like coming up to 20 years now she she’d be 40 soon and she went into xfactor at 18 you know to stay in the game you got
To be smart that’s what they be saying about us in 10 years would’t they podcast that live podcast show coming in April check the uh the link in the show notes you can find out more information about it um we’ll be back for another episode soon cheers for listen than by
If you’d like that conversation check out this conversation by clicking here and subscribe to the channel by clicking there and also don’t forget we bring out a great new podcast for you to watch every Sunday and Wednesday at 700 p.m. see you on the next one don’t forget hit subscribe
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