1.8 million of Revenue and vat is killing this business we got a frustrated business owner that wants to sort out these turnover taxes when I’ve got some great ideas on what he might be able to do so strap yourselves in and listen in hello campers welcome back to
Business broadcast JB we’re back here we are we are we are top top YouTube Sensations we are reminded us to talk about yeah we need to uh say big thank you to this is a very fast growing YouTube channel um what we’re doing here we’ve already over 2,000 subscribers
Which is way more impressive than getting followers on LinkedIn and Instagram and stuff actually quite hard isn’t it still hard yeah well I mean I’ve been doing the other channel seven years now and I think we’re on 72k and this one’s already hit 2K and getting really good listens really good watch
Time so thank you so many uh so many thanks to all of you that are subscribing if great comments as well the comments are really really in depth and people are actually now having conversations in the comments which is we good audience we’ve got a good
Audience um thank you very much so if you are watching this on YouTube and you haven’t subscribed go and bloody subscribe please there you go click that click the is that a subscribe button do it now let’s do it together there you go thank you very much um should we talk
About our guest today Ben Walker um who some of the feedback on YouTube has been you two are just asking about for 20 minutes now and we don’t like it no which makes me and you just want to do it a little bit more look look this is a
Community and I think business can be fun and we can have a little chitty chat chat and have some fun at the same time taking the mick out of you is why I prepared to do this every week fine I can’t even mock you back because you’ve
Come you’ve come in I mean clothes have been given to you but you look a million you look a million you’re watching us on YouTube I’m wearing some clothes from Michael frowick um who’s a tailor from Poland that’s why he’s got that surname but if you do want any nice clothes go
And check him out um on Instagram or send me a private message and I’ll put you in touch with him did he put the whole outfit together well I put it together did he give you the tie and the shirt combo as well he gave me the ties
Giv me the little pocket square thing what’s your thinking on a different tie and and pocket square just because I’m so bold and my personality is just so out there he’s just so out there he’s just crazy guys here’s the thing I like talk cuz he cuz he’s an immigrant
Entrepreneur literally come to the UK and these are some of the best people we have in the UK economy literally come here with nothing and build businesses from scratch I love that yeah cuz they have to they have to make it work there is no plan B yeah you think about when
You have immigrant entrepreneurs that you know go to any country in the world they leave the stability of their home their family and usually just come with very little money literally a plane Fair uh or you know fairy fair whatever it is and then they work super hard and build
Something in one generation amazes me and it’s a story that you hear so frequently you kind of like you get numb to it a little bit but how many times you heard something like I’ve turn up had $50 or 50 but imagine backing yourself to that level you don’t speak
The language you got no connections no network yeah and you got 50 quids worth of Runway y absolutely that would be a good YouTube series we could drop you into a foreign country James Sinclair in usbekistan with only 13 rupes can he survive yeah have be good i’ watch that
Anyone else up for that CH chut likes it good if you’d like to watch that just just uh comment usbekistan in the comments please and we we’ll make sure that happens no no I I I’m a big fan of immigr lots of people um put immigration
Down but we absolutely we need it don’t we we absolutely do need it I I’m not a fan of people taking the mick out of the system but hardworking individuals that want to work like we should be very open to that in my opinion they go don’t want
To get political but we we’ve wed that tight rope haven’t we uh today’s guest you want to talk about today’s guest a little bit yeah who who who have we got on JB you tell us who we got today’s guest by the way is g to be Flipping
Fantastic see what I’ve done there it’s gymnastics come on wake up scpp God really yeah you your your mind is elsewhere come on you caught your own reflection didn’t you on the way in you stunned yourself with how goodlooking you are these days know to go next yes
Our Our Guest today is from EA gymnastics Ben Walker is the fell yeah y okay how long’s it been going sorry this is your part of it yeah he’s been going four to five years what sort of money are we doing £130,000 worth of flipping goodness every single month which
Impresses me because the business is only 5 years old and you know people that that you have to take your hat off to that yeah that’s that’s some going isn’t it uh team members here has got team members he’s got 100 plus but he’s got lots of part-time and younger staff
Yeah that that would be tough to manage and all in different places with you know you’re hiring a school I’m guessing and you probably got 20 schools you’re hiring and Leisure centers and stuff like that You’ got exper a lot of people in who work in your farm Parks
Attraction must be younger but they’re all coming to one place which I think is oh okay fair enough I mean this this is like spre out this is like a looking back into my past this sort of business is very hard to yeah to turn into a commercial profitable Enterprise in my
Opinion I just think you’ve got all these different facets to manage all these different schooles all these different locations my worry for these types of businesses as well is out of them 100 part-time staff they will have the relationships your customer and some of them will just say look I’m going to
Set up on my own do you want to come and join me now um and if you think that isn’t going to happen you’re delusional yeah um so yeah what’s the challenges in the business uh challenge number one is getting into units or space for gymnastics clubs so that sort of harks
Back to what we talking about a couple of seconds ago Challenge number two vat charging in children’s services you mentioned it in the in beginning part there this is one of the biggest things you know that decentivize people to grow in these sectors because as soon as they
Go over 85,000 yeah they got to paid 20% of their turnover over yeah and it actually stops people growing in many cases um but I I think in some of these things you can go and speak to a vat specialist and I know someone that uh was in this
Gymnastic space and she won a rolling and didn’t have to pay VAT on her classes really so it is worth doing it um big shout her name is action Amanda action Amanda so she’s a sort of an action classing took five years and she fought HMR cm1 got bar involved yeah
They wanted hundreds of thousands I mean it was I ing amounts and she said no no I think it’s education and I’m looking after the children because Child Care is non vatable right some of these classes in some times they are vable like private education like when you’ve got
There’s some gray area and it’s well worth especially at 1.8 million of turnover paying a couple of grand to go and speak to a that specialist to see if there is a hokey pokey way I was speaking to someone yesterday actually about this it’s got a kit McGrath Center
Oh okay like learning school clubs yeah and um she she’s doing in excess of a million pounds we turnover and is not paying vat because she went and got and sought specialist advice from a Swanky vat accountant that wrote to hmrc and they come up with a an arrangement so is
There like a definition of what would be class because if you’re teaching a child surely that is education what I’m concerned about here is I feel like James B and James Sinclair are verging on giving vat advice accountant dad is turning in his grave right now going shut up you idiot
You don’t know what talk what we are advising is you go and see a tax that specialist to give you advice on here and I’m just telling you about stories that I’ve been told and I cannot confirm or deny those stories are true u i I’m just trusting the people that tell me
Those things are of that case and I on um on Amanda’s one I definitely did read the case law on that because she put it on LinkedIn and everywhere yeah I’ve remember seeing it do you think it helped that she was Boris Johnson’s child’s party and that was that was
Afterwards yeah she she loves she loves posting a s pick if she watches this Amanda she she anyone she’s work with there’s a poster absolutely um so that’s that’s challenge two Challenge three making money and promoting it as it’s being made from children and we talked about
This before and you said is this like an imposter syndrome thing but what I think Ben was getting at is the fact that as a business obviously they they’re doing quite well but he can’t really and especially if he wants to turn this into a franchise which is one of his plans
You can’t really go we’re doing 1.8 million quid teach your kids to do handstands and roly poliy like that last time I checked Barbie and Mattel and Disney didn’t care have you ever had any push back on on it because obviously you talk about why you are such a fan of the
Nursery sector because of lifetime value the fact that they are touching on they have to come back to you four times in quick succession it’s it’s good profit profit margin stuff I think if you said to your customers we’re only making 51% net profit they would go all right it’s
Not about what you turn is it it’s not about it’s about what you make so have you never had any push back or because you because not really because I like to think we’re good value for money as a roll of thumb fair enough someone’s just walked in here I have no
Idea hopefully he’s the seagull catcher all right upstairs um where does he want to be in one year is a question that we always like to ask um he wants a franchise running with at least one franchisee so he’s on the franchise game again I worry about people franchising
Low barrier to entry businesses like this okay if you own the property that the franchisee operates out of or the lease that will protect you yeah I had that conversation yesterday with that person about Kim McGrath as well that that’s a franchise isn’t it you buy into
The the franchise slow barrier to enter and someone could just set up a new kit McGrath down the road and uh there’s no rules on that now as as franchises have developed There are rules and stuff in place but if the corporate entity just wants to do it themselves which I think
Is the case in this situation um they could just set it up themselves what so with kit McGrath is it like a education model that they’ve got That’s Unique or is it are they just like a marketing company that yes so if you if you think about this this gymnastics or you’re
Doing a football coaching club or something like that what do you need 500,000 you know you got buy some footballs and try and rent a bit of grass and off you go you got sportting PR just really coming out there get some footballs in a bit better grass I I
Think you know the longer I spend in business if you you know the whole aim and the discipline of business is to build commercially profitable ENT Riz that work without you in it how do you do that you try and be as high a barrier to entry as possible and you have Moes
Around your around your castle that stop other people taking the castle from you the reality is though most people want to do the easy stuff don’t they and they don’t want to do the hard stuff about building castles and modes but if you are going to go into the Folly that is
Entrepreneurship and building a business and it’s going to take a lot of time and it’s much harder than anyone ever thinks it is um you know that Jay you You’ be you’ve been in in lots of businesses and I’ve been doing it for 20 years this is
Not an easy thing um and you might as well do something a bit bigger because it’s I think just as difficult or if not more difficult to run a small thing it’s a shame you don’t know that on day one cuz when you’re going to go down the
Difficult path you might as well go down the difficult difficult path cuz you take the walk down it anyway whereas you get a couple of years in you’re like oh this is quite well it’s funny you should say that that difficult difficult thing is something I say there’s two types of
Businesses easy difficult and difficult difficult and I done this I done a seminar yesterday called invest preneur which was high level entrepreneurs about 35 people that are well on their way you know 2 million plus Revenue employing people um they’re over the um one man B
You know so they’re over that and and I said that very line yesterday that you want to choose businesses that are easy difficult rather than difficult difficult um one of my wife’s friends has just started a candle business I was God solo barrier to entry yeah you know
I went on alib barar and found the exact same candles you know they’re trying to sell them uh you know they’re trying to be Joe Malone you know these things are very difficult to do um you know and I think you know with ,000 you could be in your candle business
Yeah you class that is difficult difficult yeah I think that’s very difficult difficult not impossible so what would be one of your easy difficult businesses things that have got Moes around them where people buy from you regularly how often do people need candles from you yeah once every and
Usually that’s as a process of network marketing you know your friends which is a hard model in of itself isn’t it and you and you lay the guilt on your friends and family to buy from you that wouldn’t necessarily even want to buy those truth be known they probably want
To buy a Jo Malone one because they want to buy into brand because that’s the way the world Works um and so I just you know I want to choose population hungry audience well I think people completely underestimate a hungry audience just makes life so much easier doesn’t it you
Know if you’ve got an audience that’re very hungry and they want to buy from you right now yeah look at that tuition business like people want their children to have extra tuition that’s why venture capital and private Equity money are putting in money into that sector as
Long as it’s high barrier to entry where they own the locations and they’ve got Moes around the business it all works out Child Care there’s a hungry audience for people that want it Health Care Medicine there’s literally food there’s hungry audiences for those things I suppose in those instances as well a lot
Of them are what you talk about that whole want love and need say love want and need yeah if people love what you do want what they want what you do and need what you do then you have a much higher chance of making really good money now
If we look at the candle scenario there people yeah they love candles they want candles but they don’t need it yeah so it’s not essential um that business they do guilt purchase to support their power won’t they ordinarily and then you’ve actually got to go and find proper punters and give
Enough value to exchange money for the service of the product and I think one of the big things that really emphasizes this is what banks LED money to and I I always think of this as as an example Car Finance so why do banks and lenders bend the rules and give people
Car Finance when they can just about afford it it’s because if people need their car they will sacrifice everything else to make the car payment to make sure that they still have a car because they they they want transport they need transport and if you really think about
It people love it and the best example of it is the iPhone you know if people’s phone breaks they cancel their day and get to the Apple shop to get it sold of yeah literally CU they love want and need it um and so so you have to look at
Those things and if you’re in a business where people just love and want it but don’t need it it’s dangerous interesting all three are the ones uh that that do the really well uh so car oh my my phone’s crashed now ironic you mentioned about iPhones and now my phone’s crashed
Just got my notes on um team member oh we covered all that challenge number three is the making money where do you want to be in one year franchise uh 10 clubs that they run is another thing they want they want a full-time unit Chelmsford so that goes back to your
Point of sort putting Moes in and sort of protecting by having a place where people come to much better launching or launch qualifications and the insurance is to external clubs we have 10 clubs on board so he’s told us before he’s already been working on this behind the
Scenes so he’s not just got sort of a me too is’s he’s building up um I guess it would be IP which could be super valuable and products and services um what does the business look like when it’s finished the Amazon of gymnastics own the whole ecosystem providing better
Value and keeping more profit in the business as the profit margins are low um do you want to make the profit do you make the profit you want to if so what is it need to double check profits but it’s around 100K plus but based on the conversation we had offline he thought
That maybe hmrc was also scraping the data off that website I think he’s put it very very low it sounds like yeah unless H Marc are listening in which case it’s a very very accurate um reflection day business manages the area managers who look after four locations
Focus on the growth of the business to ensure they’re continuing to grow and he’s got a bunch of questions that he would like to ask you so should we get him on yeah let’s get him on let’s get him on Ben hello sir how the devil are
You doing how’s it going you right we are very well thank you my friend very well thank you for being here welcome here Ben you’re a fellow Essex lad I see well I’m actually based uh more suffk based uh in a small little town called lowo oh the world good crabbing
Down there most easterly point you can get yes it’s on Top Gear once and uh yeah yeah I know which is the claim to fame so talking about your B how did you find out about us is did you find us on YouTube or you being a longtime audio
Listener and then converted uh two two ways actually so I um watched I just watch your one of your podcasts come up as a suggestion on uh on YouTube I watch podcasts quite often um and I watched that and you said you’re looking for guests I thought i’ be good to you know
Pick your brains and and gain some information on this and the other day I was around a friend’s house um Lucy and Mark and they were like oh we know James and I was like yeah they’re like yeah we we used to do stuff with James and
They’ve been helping us kind of get to where we’ve got to already um Lucy I don’t know who Luc Mark AR can you give me a bit more Mark vernam and Lucy Johnson right is vaguely coming to me what do they do do some H they do they
You do um like business courses as well oh I know who they are yes it’s all come back to me now yes I know who they are yes okay cool very about that as well so well okay right well let’s try and let’s try and grow the business so see
Doing 130k a month one of the things that I know that I think you should be doing that I know you’re not doing is producing monthly management accounts I don’t think you’re doing that I actually watched one of your there was that podcast I watched when you were saying
Oh or it might have been on a a YouTube one you’ve done where you were mentioning uh as you grow you need to do monthly manage accounts and this is going to help with with finances and um getting invested in doing things I literally I’m in the process of getting
It and we’ll start doing them as from the 8th of next month though I will be getting managed profit and loss reports um every single month you mustn’t like that should be the it should be in the same priority as paying your staff and paying your bills is up there you just
Cannot grow a bit I mean it is a Folly to have a 1.8 million pound Revenue business let me just say it one more time it’s a Folly to have a 1.8 million pound Revenue business and not know your monthly numbers and rely on annual accounts the second you put that into
Place and the reason I’m laboring the point is because I really want to make sure that’s the one thing you get off of this podcast um of course I’m laboring the point because you will become more profitable overnight everyone does as soon as they know if it’s good or bad
News and and you know what sometimes bad news is really good for us because it really channels our thoughts on going forward and it makes you you know I repaired all the holes in the bucket in my business from management accounts because they oh right this is a really
Bad month what am I going to do next year to repair that month do I need different re revenue streams do I deal different products that people want to buy in that particular month you know I’m guessing that August for example when all the school holidays are off
That’s probably not a good month for you unless you’ve built a holiday club I’m not sure we we actually um it’s to be honest with you the numbers aren’t that bad because it’s so structured yeah so every single month they all pay on the first and we run all year round so we
Build them we run for 47 weeks of the year and we charge them on a monthly basis based on this yeah and they pay on the first of the first of the month so for us there’s a recurring income no matter what it’s great I love that so that’s our basic
Our basic numbers so I know already as a standard that all of our bills all of our outgoing and everything is completely covered by the first of the month payment yeah yeah no no I mean that part of the business the residual income part of the business the predictability of the business I
Absolutely love um just quick go into the second one um getting into sorry then you the first challenge was getting into units or space for gymnastics please explain yeah so we first of all we started off doing like uh what you were explaining a little bit earlier we would
Run for two days in a school hall and uh we probably rented it out on a Saturday for five hours and um that was great to start with the there’s really bad um supply for gymnastics but there’s a lot of demand for it so we filled up and we
Were doing really really good um we had some we had a lot of experience in gymnastics we were uh attracting lots of people and doing really really well uh um once we’ve done this we realized early on that you don’t really have very much control over what you can use and
Your entire business models based on this person’s facility that can just say oh no you can’t run anymore um or we’re shutting tomorrow by the way you can’t come in and that kind of scared us a lot as we started to get a little bit bigger
So in covid um when we got shut kind of stop rather than sit back and do nothing we decided to take out bounceback loans and when everyone else was sitting back and doing nothing uh no one was buying units or renting units we were approaching the units and saying look we
Can’t run yet but we would love to take this unit on um ready for when we’re done so we actually acquired two units in lockdown and we bought loads of gyms out that were shutting down and selling so we Ked out loads of gyms and we got
Two units so that when we come out of covid we kind of opened with two facilities that were our own that we could run full-time from uh um and then after that we’ve done the same sort of model and we’ve got maybe I think we’ve got six facilities that are actually
Inside a inside a unit one of which is 20,000 square foot um some of which are you know 4,000 square foot and now it’s just certain locations we find it quite hard to find units chelwood is our biggest struggle and that’s the one that really we’re trying to find somewhere
Because we’ve got hundreds of children on a waiting list ready to go but we can’t get into a facility that’s big enough to accommodate the supply that we need to get and that’s where we’re struggling because we’re Leisure and a lot of landlords just go oh what do you
Do we say we’re doing gymnastics we’d love to come in here we want to do this and doing this to the community um but the landlords just go no I want to trade in here I want storage I want distribution I want something nice and
Easy I don’t have to muck around with it and no and that’s pretty much the answer we get all the time in gford so um that’s the main I’ve got some ideas on that I would do next but let’s just come so you’ve got six units that you solely
Lo use for you and one of them’s 20,000 square foot yes yeah 20,000 foot is double the size of this space that we’re recording this podcasting on it what does that cost you in rent for a 20,000 sqare foot unit I think it’s about £5,000 including v a month all in that’s
Yeah so that where is that in the world Milton Kings BL it I mean and so that must generate a big chunk of your 1.8 million of Revenue that place no we actually acquired that recently in uh the last month so we we realized we it was taking too long for
Us to find a unit um get in there and kind of get the customers in start it all up get the staff so we started looking at taking over places that were struggling not doing very well and putting our systems in place that we know worked and uh increasing the
Revenue so we actually took that one uh probably nine months ago now what was it before uh it was so it was a gymnastics Club but it was losing around 8,000 per month um so we took it on and put our systems in place and it’s now
Back in the green and it’s starting to do a lot more than what it was um beforeand so it’s it probably only makes at the moment I’d say 2,000 of Prof it however it was losing £8,000 and we’ve got so much scope we could double what it’s doing as a turnover now quite
Easily well I’m sure see this is this is different to what I got in the notes really so you’re actually physical locations people coming to you but you’re also doing some going into schools as well still so we’ve got we don’t do schools but we do Leisure
Center so one of our gyms what we done was G the same sort of thing we went into a ledger Center and we were running out of it maybe three days a week same sort of thing there was no real good units that were around but I noticed
That inside the Leisure Center there was a bowl green and inside there it was probably used I would say for maybe three or four hours in in the day at math and I’d go in there and every time we went down there I would look into it
And think this space is so underused it’s unbelievable and we had a massive waiting list in fford and we were trying to find some spaces so what we’ve done is we approached the leder center manager and over about a year of kind of you know persuading and explaining what
We could do and how we could utilize the space uh we managed to strike up a deal so now we run fulltime out of a ledger Center as well so that’s another one of our sites and the only other two sites that we have are packaway gyms are one
In chelsford and one in like a small little town um which is just more of like a satlite really it runs four days a week um but chelsford is somewhere we really need to find a full-time home we essentially test the market with normally a ledger Center um you know
It’s a lower kit out the kit outs aren’t as low as what you maybe think they are a minimum kit out is kind of 10 to 20,000 as a minimum um to kind of get yourself going and once you’ve got the equipment it’s then you get the children
In you try and see what it’s like and you test the demand and then after we normally test it we go right this place is working we’ve built up a reputation in the area and then we then look to expand that into a full time facility afterwards all right so I’m just there’s
So many questions to try and help here um so so going back to chumford so you’re generating what 20 grand a month from chumford in Revenue are you as we stand I can tell you the numbers you give me two seconds I’ve got them in front of me sorry one second chord
Mate about one second I I can what I made this month if that helps make life a bit easier CHS he’s got that £7,000 this month how much and it runs £17,000 this month I love I love my guessing 20K was not bad was it it’s like I’m the Mystic Mega of
Entrepreneurship H so so that that so you’re bringing in that 17K so out of that 17K you’ve got 20% V yeah yeah and then you’ve got Staffing what what percentage is your Staffing Staffing or CH uh staff is around about £5,000 okay so 5K on that
Uh and then what then you got some rent to the Leisure Cent yeah I I it’s around £1,800 so let’s say 2K five so then what so you make about 7K profit on chompster as we are today well that’s just off the basics that’s off the rec Basics we also have
Yeah we also do badges every quarter which is7 pound a badge we also do insurance which is a m i mean what is a badge I mean I know what a badge is but so badge is like if you do karate or martial arts you get belts yep so with
The belts it’s that’s our version of gymnastics of belts so every quarter we get the gymnast to take part in a badge and it’s a great grading system for the kids to kind of see how they’re doing give some feedback let the parents know how they’re doing and for the children
To kind of gain like a reward as part of doing that um we probably make about four pound every child every quarter off a badge okay fine says a little bit right and then we have insurance and club membership which is buil at 33 a year
What to each parent to every parent yeah okay so all of this comes in in a big lump on the first of the month and you pay your wages and then at the end you you you make yeah you make sounds like you’re making good money this is more
Higher barrier to entry than I first thought because you own the locations um especially when you’ve got a 20,000 foot location although very expensive it absolutely puts a moat around the business not everyone can just go and get one of those um in terms as much of a reme if it’s rented as
Opposed to owning it I think a lot of people would go see my concern for your type of business um uh my concern for your type of business Ben is that people will go right these are I know the parents I know them um I’ve built a relationship with them I’ll just start
Up against you I can go get a legis for 1800 really happening extremely hard to set up and the reasons why is it has it is a large equip cost which is hard that is it’s not cheap even I know you think I think yeah I
Mean 10 20K is low barrier to entry most people would be able to access that from their family remortgage their house get a personal loan it is super low barrier to entry um don’t think that that I mean to start a business no it’s not necessarily just that I think it’s all
Of them together so it’s the cost to start with just initially I think it’s the experience that you need and the staff that you need and the training um and the insurance and things like that I’m just quite hard to get no but once you’ve got all that and you’ve worked
For you for three years and you know what you’re doing and and they’ve copy you and that this will happen I I absolutely no of course I I could imagine but once you start saying it’s a 20,000 foot building most people just do not see that as something that they want
To take the risk with but you renting some space one of the hardest parts is getting a space that’s why I think it’s it’s safer because when you go to find somewhere legure centers usually are completely full and you can’t really rent them for less than more than maybe
A couple of hours a week so they may be able to compete with us maybe byy I’m saying it’s a good news thing that you you start having your own units and you’re the location that puts a moat around your Castle your business can I is most of the business Monday to Friday
Or is it completely seven days a week or is it just weekends seven days a week yeah so like a midday on a Monday are you taking money then or is it after school yeah so we can do like they come in and the the parents bring their
Children in they just kind of play in the gym or we’ll run like um preschool Nursery sort of style classes where we come in and this like moms and babies classes or and how how did you how did you find your customers and how did you
Start this I think that would be a good so the first thing that we done was we were in the gymnastics sport from the age of 15 on I turned 30 a couple of weeks ago and we’ve been doing it for years we started it when I was 25 so
We’ve been in the sport for a long while high level and we understood the ins and outs of everything um so what we done was we first of all realized that every Gymnastics Club in the areas have massive waiting lists it’s unbelievable I think there was a statistic out that
There’s over a million children on the waiting list for gymnastics across Ross the UK and it’s not always going to be completely accurate but we just kind of looked at that and saw that actually this is something that we could do and we could do really well um so after we’d
Kind of realized there was a kind of Supply issue we wanted to open up and we literally just went about it with a marketing campaign um with Organic marketing um we don’t really do paid ads at the moment is something we’re going to start looking at doing now um but
We’ve done it all organically with kind of leaflets and um going into the schools and delivering free sessions into schools and work classic network marketing yes yeah completely okay so that that that’s interesting so let’s just quickly tap on to the the challenges here so getting space I think
Let’s get into that what would I do if I was in this scenario I would be contacting the local authorities so if we was talking about I would be contacting chumford because they own a lot of property that might be underutilized but also the county councils so ‘s County Council both of
These councils will have big property departments and they will have underutilized properties within their portfolios yeah and you say can I speak to the head of property please I’d like to talk to them about some potential space they might have and nearly all of the councils that I operate in and I’ve
Done this with day nurseries um I’ve done this with Marsh Farm that’s how I got Marsh Farm These property departments in local authorities remember there’s two for every County the the overall County Council and then the burrowers uh and they over the years just collect assets like loads of
Libraries just sitting there empty doing nothing um they’ve got office blocks just sitting there empty doing nothing um and you need to try and get a coffee with and make sure they they they know of you and speak to them regularly because something might come up in 6
Months time but not now uh and that’s where I’ve got some of my best property locations for my businesses yeah I think that’d be really really helpful it’s something that we’ve got on our list now to do because we’ve exhausted options we speaking to local estate agents um yeah yeah so the next
To get to the councils so so I know you lots of councils go Oh we must do something with that 24 months later it’s still got nothing done with it but if you knock on the door so my day Nursery in bason was as a result of speaking to
The local Authority my day Nursery in stevenage is a result of speaking to the local Authority um and the marsh Farm is as a result of speaking to the local Authority um actually one two three four five I’ve got six of my landlords a local authorities across the portfolio businesses they’ve got
I would say I would say most County councils are sitting on billions of pounds worth of property and you going in like a sales pitch you put like a little pitch deck really no no not even that complicated JB you just ring up their property head of
Property I was about to look most local authorities and local governments are way more sleepy than the commercial sector I think that’s a a fair way of saying it there is no no immediate pressure no urgency in those roles is there yeah I tell you the other person
That you should definitely speak to as well is the NHS the NHS are sitting on billions billions of pounds worth of property fire service police when you see police are selling off um fire police stations all the bloody time they’ve got so much property government um and they’re just not doing stuff with
It and so that’s where I’d be focusing a lot of my time and that’s where you get the best deals as well because you know that if they put it on zuper and right move you might compete with other people um and if you go to them ready to go Bish bash
BOS is some do and you get juicy rentree periods um because usually the properties are in disrepair and you’re going to go and put them in a better place and it’s just that no one has because what the way government works you think about it yes you have a
General election every four or five years so there’s a change of color there but they got all these local ones as well so really every 2 and a half years if you comp compound local and general elections there there’s new leadership every 2 and a half years that’s why
Nothing gets done yeah that there alone is the big problem just as someone gets in on a local election change of direction oh we’ve got gen and usually they can’t do big decisions around election time so that oh there’s an election in 90 days let’s just put all decisions on
Hold so really you’ve got new leadership comes in and they take 90 days to lost half a year yeah exactly wow that’s a good little hacking this so so that’s that one um Challenge number two mat charging in children’s services now my friend Ben this is a challenge for
Many many people in your sector because you can’t claim any vat back so it’s just a a cost off your turnover isn’t it yeah it’s very frustrating um and um my my advice on to this is uh I spoke about this in the pre- chat chat if you
Was listening in um about a friend of mine that took hmrc to call an one in a sector that’s where you’re in um so I would reach out to her it’s action Amanda um and her Barrister who I doubt is called brilliant Bruce or something Jolly John Jolly John the
Barrister and he’s a a vat specialist and you just need to have a conversation with someone that’s got letters after their name that does this day in day out to see if there is um anything that you can do yeah no that sounds really really helpful now I’ve got some quick advice
For this as well now remember remember so we’re in Roller City right now if you come into Roller City with your children and you rent um roller skates off of me because that’s a children’s item and therefore non vatable and I can put that as part of the admission which I can
Reduce off of my VAP Bill and I’ve got a hmrc clearance letter to say that I can do that so you want to find all those little things if there’s any health and safety stuff that they need to wear you know or use that you provide as part of
A rental so if you’re taking kids climbing for example and they need a harness that they need to rent off of you otherwise they would fall off the climb and one would die that could be um a part of your admission price could be the rental on that stuff and books if
You’re giving them educational books as part of the um of the gymnastics course that’s non vatable and you might be able to say look actually it’s it’s 30 a month to come to gymnastics 15 pounds of it it’s an online book course £15 of it’s the lesson course and you
Can reduce your VAP bills these have to be legitimate and you have to be real you can’t just make all this up you know it has to be real um you need to look at these things because it’s not fair these turnover taxes no 100% I think something we we
Started doing is uh well the children’s clothing isn’t uh you don’t pay VAT on children’s clothing we Supply their own our own we print and Supply everything for all the uniforms that we do and we also do that now for other gymnastics clubs yeah so that that’s notable but
I’m saying if there was if there was heal something in with yeah if it’s like health and like the roller skating rink or the harnesses on um I mean I don’t know your business completely I’m just giving you some ideas you’re going to have to go and do your own research yes
Of course ch digital sorry does digital products count towards the education element what about ebooks ebooks count ebooks are non vatable so if he said like in Mar that changed in the um they changed that in the covid uh pandemic ah newspapers are non vatable now so it used to be that
Only printed newspapers were non vatable or zero rated should I say and then uh subscriptions for newspapers were vatable um but they changed that um in the pandemic so if there’s different like keystage learning levels if there was like a PDF that went out with in in
February we doing this type of Ry poy tumble and there was some legitimate like we’ve emailed you the education part of it and you could bundle and so you still hav to go it’s seen as a book right but again like you know this is Monumental for your size of business
Look at him tapping are you tapping this all away are you he’s got luing he’s the vat has hit him so hard he’s to use a typewriter I’m I’m making sure to write it all down I’ve got we actually record this podcast for everyone else it’s not
Just a oneto one conversation so when it comes out you can listen to it got utilize it by the time it’s come out I should have already saved the V got the new problems now um but but like with all these things when it’s Monumental for your business you know it
Is worth paying a few thousand pounds to a specialist fat accountant yeah not your standard accountant you know like if you want to find out about stemp Duty and land tax tax rates you go to a stamp Duty and land tax accountant if would there be vat specialist in sectors as
Well would there beely gymnastics yeah yeah and sometimes they don’t know enough and then you need to get a that Barrister that really does know it you know because what was amazing about Amanda you know she’s a oneman band and she went no no I’m not EV this and she
Went all the way she I think it cost her like 150 Grand in legal fees yeah and she took HRC she documented the whole thing as well didn’t SE it on Facebook and hmrc went yeah yeah no you’re right now that’s what really annoys me about you
Know she how many people don’t say now I’m going to go all the way yeah it’s a classic David and Goliath moment of course yeah so well done her yeah she won go check it out go and check out that that um we got some
Questions you like to ask me I want to answer these questions because I think they’re going to be valuable for the audience so do you know them or do you want JB to read them out if JB could read them out please that because you forgotten I think that’s the way we’re
Going to do these questions going forward JB just uh okay we shouldn’t really tell our listeners exactly how we’re going to make this over chicken curry should we Lun time but um so you ask the questions and I’ll answer okay do you want them all do you I think we
Should because they’re very good for here they are very good okay so um we always ask our guests if they would like to ask a few questions to multi entrepreneur and that specialist James C CL not ADV not advice um so one of the questions are are you trying to get us
Banned I just see how far I can push what’s he here now we’re going to start giving medical advice next really get us in trouble do Fitness device you skipping around the ring before we started right question number one was I know you’re in the nursery business and
Want to know how you structure your services with vat and Company structure there’s no VAT on child care so that’s the answer to that on any part of it zero uh it’s not zero rated I wish it was Zero rated it’s exempt there’s two different things here again not giving
Out more T so actually this isn’t this is just there’s zero rated which is what you want and then there’s V exempt which is better but not what you want because if it’s zero rated you get to claim all your V back and so so Bakery our Bakery for example is zero
Rated but if we have an electric bill or I don’t know any bill that has 20% VAT on it there’s um you can claim all the vat back on that if you got rent with VAT on it you can claim it all back if your vat exempt you don’t charge fat but
You can’t yeah so you want to be zero rated so is if he if Ben’s only looking after kids and yes he’s teaching them like would that not class as child care the child that’s why that’s why I’m saying he if he is looking after them
And for more than 4 hours there is some rules and understand I don’t I’m not I think I know what they are but I don’t want to say them on the C in case but that’s why going to check your specialist out but I absolutely know day nurseries full-time Child Care is vat
Exempt not zero rated so we don’t pay vat but we also can’t claim any back right okay which is you must have quite a lot of vatable stuff that you like cost rent rent rent is um one food food is zero rated isn’t it mostly I didn’t know see we’re laughing and learning
Here so chocolate is uh vable uh but cakes are not vatable you must have heard the Jaffer cake vat store oh yes yes yes yes so if it’s a cake it’s non vatable biscuits are vatable it might be the other way around I can’t remember but God what are we doing you’re like
Forcing us sorry so godamn knowledgeable um all right question number two how would you acquire a unit for our Gymnastics Club I think I answered that fine spyy she don’t like that question that’s why I’m having to ask with the questions to fill the time um final question then
Was what would you focus on if you were in my position franchise or opening clubs themselves um probably I would open the clubs myself and then franchise them out McDonald get McDonald’s do that very well usually they open a site corporate owned they call it corporate
Owned yeah okay so they run it as the corporate lot flagships in areas no in any area then trade it for three years then put a franchisee in it so they go to the franchise through their vigorous selection process bloody X Factor to be a McDonald’s franchisee and they go yeah
You’ve passed the McDonald’s franchisee selection criteria have Birmingham city center would you ever be interested to buy a franchise of something like that where there’s a system and a process already in place just see their system yes I’ve I’ve thought about that and there is a they’re doing adverts on
LinkedIn they keep targeting me I don’t know whether they’re like McDonald’s yeah they’re like oh buy a franchise yeah well 2.4 million I think it is from this why I said look I’m gonna I’ll only do two at a time two 2.4 I’m only doing two at a
Time funny yeah no but you would Finance most of that through HSBC or something so you wouldn’t have to actually you’d have to have some of the money I was going to finance it through the banker in CL I was you know I’m taking you to the interview with Ronald yeah um so
They they set it up trade it and then there is a little there is a an old entrepreneurship phrase that the fastest way to become a millionaire is to have a McDonald’s franchise heard that before I have heard that yeah that was uh as always growing up I remember everyone
That was a like a phrase that people used to say so you would say how many clubs would you get to or would you cover like a certain area and then go right now I’ve got the reason can I just say the reason I would do that is
Because you would be able to set it up how you want it mhm you would then own the lease which puts a moot around your business Ben are you still there Ben I am yeah we’ve actually just taken on a franchise uh they’ve just bought in and
We’ve done exactly that we’ve said right well as part of your fee we we find source and we take on the lease of the property we’ll even put the equipment in there for you yeah and it’s our equipment our building everything and then he will that is the way to win that
Is the way to win in franchising because you if you don’t what most people do is they want to drisk themselves so they go I don’t want to own the system and process crack on our brand guidelines yeah I don’t want to own the equipment I
Don’t want to but actually if you look at M they are a landlord first and then an operator second and that’s if you watch the story the founder you know that’s a great lesson in making franchising work because it wasn’t working until Ray Croc then flipped that
And then started owning the leases and indeed sometimes the freeholds of the property you can’t always own the freeholds of the property because you know McDonald’s want to be in Liverpool Street you know station and probably Network ra own that but they still think it’s strategic to take a long-term lead
On that and then subl that least to the franchisees but if the franchisee you know starts mucking you around then the power to pull the the rug from underneath them if you need to and what’s good about the the McDonald’s model is if the franchisees you know
Something happens they get run over by a bus or um you know or they’re not doing what they’re told um you know McDonald’s can just go back in and run that operation from a corporate level I think they they still run about a third of all
The SES corporately oh do they here in the UK I’m sure that’s becausee I’m sure someone’s going to put in the comments now wrong C idiot why doing this yeah so um there we go right um I think that’s all of the questions isn’t it that’s it
That’s all the questions did we help you enough Ben yes I think so I think you even helped me because my the only question I hadn’t asked at the time was how go about a franchise but you’ve answered it anyway yeah yeah good um but we kind of done that anyway
We’d kind of gone about the well we need to have the the gym because if they’re not running it to standard we need to be able to say well no look this is ours you know you can leave and we don’t have to deal with anything it’s all
Ours well are you a fan of the show have we made you a fan of the show are you going to listen more regularly to other lesson other episodes yes 100% yeah it’s uh it’s nice to just hear already from the other one I learned about the managed accounts and that’s something
Now that we’ve already started to uh get into place and I’m already compiling together and from the eth of every month now I will receive accurate manag accounts every month well yours I mean you’ve got good business here and I think with management accounts and you
Know a bit more experience you’re be Off to the Races and I’m glad to hear you’re a fan of the show because we’ve got some good news if you’re such a fan of the show you can now come see it live can’t you JB wow you can indeed on the 10th of
June live in the Leicester Square Theater see your your picture is now up on a West End theater website I know but I’m also Under The Heading of James Sinclair’s podcast so I just I just look like a passenger on someone else’s train journey which effectively what I am
Really but you know you’re you’re more than a but you’re in first class I know my my dad said i’ never out to anything look at me now dad got got half of my beaky little face on a on the west end stage yeah well you’re still on there it
Could just be me oh no no yeah yeah 100% I’ll be I’ll be I’ll be making a b deal about it yeah I’ll be running a subsidiary course on how the podcast can get you a West End show good stuff well if you like to come along to that the
Show it’s bloody good value for money and hopefully we’ll see you there Ben because it’s going to cost you about 30 quid I think we should have a jingle to do a little advert for the the if you would like to take your business to the next level if you have
£32 spare in your pockets you can come along live to Leicester Square theater for Jamesy care live in London join me at my power Jimbo as he dishes out knowledge information insights and wisdoms and don’t forget no doubt he’ll make it downloadable blueprint because he loves to talk about Blueprints and
Cheat sheets if you’d like to be there just click the link in the show notes now 32 I feel like we put a lot of pressure on he’s the only person who’s had this hard sales pitch I I feel like we’re double glazing sales people at
This point oh yeah yeah but it’s 32 so if you want a night out in the Leicester Square theater on the 10th of June I believe it is is it it is indeed 7 p.m. if you go on to my website James on events then there’s a link um I think
That’s the better way to do it or you can because that’s for everybody by the way not just for Ben who is being moderately financially bullied right now this is where we’re going to find out now Ben what are you doing on the 10 of Junior guys yeah I’m getting married
Yes sorry guys I’m bu the podcast aren’t I well hopefully we hopefully we’ll see you there for the business broadcast live where you get to spend two hours with James B James Sinclair to grow your business and we’re going to it’s going to be a great night so hopefully we’ll
See you there and all other listeners get tickets we’ve already sold some can you believe that I know before we even knew it had gone live ex saw the contracts had you and people already buying tickets which is pretty impressive before you go Ben where could
People find out more if they have they’ got kids in the Essex area and they want to get their kids active both we’re based all over we’ve got one in Cardis Milton keing chelsford lower stof Leon Great Yarmouth bford uh we’re spaced now and we’ll soon
Hopefully have a lot more um around the UK so it’s just EA gymnastics online and um they’re able to do that or if they run a gymnastics club and they want to qualify and ensure themselves it’s gym club Solutions there you go gym club Solutions fantastic thank you for being
On the show mate really appreciate it thank you for having me well there you go that’s Ben on the business was a bit of a turnaround because I thought the more it went on the more I like that business that’s good isn’t it I think
And it goes to prove that even if you’re in low uh barrier to entry sort of business models find the ways to build the Moes around the business this could be something that you know for 1,800 quid people could go and compete with him by renting out or subletting a bit
Of space in a in a Leisure Center but as you say when you get to the point where you got I think when you put chunky stuff around businesses people go that’s proper yeah yeah for sure they got signage and got buildings and they’ve got car pokets space and gives you exit
Value yeah and all the things that you can do to increase the exit value even if you have no intention of exting uh will make your business more profitable I mean I there’s a little thing he said there and I thought this guy is you know more higher bar to entry thinking he
Wants to go further is yeah I’m going to take a 20,000 foot building at 15 grand a month rent not many people would do that no well there you go if you have enjoyed the podcast please feel free to like And subscribe and all that kind of
Good stuff should we just quickly grade him course I’ve nearly forgot it again I can’t believe I’m only here to do one thing uh those of you are regular listeners when we can remember we do this thing called the eight traits are great entrepreneurs and we just see if
They have all the eight traits and um JB we’re going to do that now we’re going to have some Jingles for the the eight traits of the greats there we go so uh eight traits are great on this is a bad jingle I just hit I
Just hit the button just hope for the best um starting with the end in mind do you think he done that oh I think he is yeah okay we’ll give him that he got one point uh passionate about the calls he’s been doing it since
He was about six wasn’t he so yeah he’s passionate about gymnastics gymnastic stuff um gymnastic stuff untold amounts of resilience I think I think don’t don’t if he’s even been tested yet but I think he’s pushing forwards isn’t he yeah I think he’s got that relationships with
People well he we only spoke to him for a short period of time he seemed like a lovely fell commercial awareness no he’s not producing management information he doesn’t really know what he’s making no fair enough but he’s going to be from the e of the
Month jokes aside and we do have a lot of jokes and jokes aside for the people who hate the jokes on YouTube but the fact he’s listened to free content and actioned it and from the eth of next month he’s going to know his business better because he’s listened to you
Gabble on for a bit that’s good is it yeah for sure they innovate so don’t evaporate is he innovator oh I would say so yeah he’s got insurance and the clothing and all that stuff Master marketeer he done some basic Network this is we just take a moment to appreciate this Jingles got
Worse you know I think like a mouth trumpet Like Axel Foley from Hills Cop was just going to walk in R poy to finish off the gymnastics style of the sh master marketeer I don’t think I want to give him he’s not a master he might understand some Basics but he’s not done no Google ads he’s done no Facebook he
Doesn’t yet yeah no I don’t think he’s a master marketer but he and they stay teachable and curious I think by being on the podcast he is 100% I’m going to give him half of that because okay oh he’s def curious all right he’s have
That one so you got six out of eight six out of eight he’s got six traits of great entrepreneurs fantastic that’s what we could do we could when people come to the event live when they come see live at leer Square we could put people together their seating
Arrangement could be based on how they scored in the traits there you go so you have all the threes together all the fours together and the higher you score the closer to the front you get yeah there you go it’s a terrible idea thanks for listening make sure you subscribe to
The channel and if are listening on any audio platform please give us a review um it helps more than you know anything you’d like to say Before We Say Goodbye no thanks thanks thank you once again for the gift that you keep giving to entrepreneurship your time energy it’s
Goodbye from him and it’s goodbye from him bye
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