What’s up everybody welcome back to another episode of the lights out podcast today we we’ve got a very disturbing case for you Morgan geyser and Ana wire and this character called Slender Man Slenderman’s lore might date back to Medieval Germany Slender Man became an internet phenomenon after being entered into an internet Photoshop
Contest on June 10 2009 the two Photoshop pictures showed images of children and behind them a tall thin spectral character lurked in the background the strange creature became known as Slender Man it’s called the topa effect it’s basically this idea that if enough people believe that something is real it can actually
Manifest in the real world they needed to kill their friend Bella it was the only way to convince slender that they were loyal to him he wasn’t just a story or a photoshopped image he was real lights out everybody what’s up everybody welcome back to another episode of the lights
Out podcast I’m your host Josh I’m joined in the studio by my co-host Austin what’s up man how’s it going could be better actually oh yeah yeah I have a quick little story sure so I was just in DC last week uh for the national Center for missing
Exploited children’s Gala and I come home back to the airport I go to my truck which I left my truck at the airport garage and my truck had been broken into no way yeah and uh what happened was is they apparently targeted my truck cuz it’s you know trucks are
Awesome a hot commodity it’s a cool truck and uh turns out it was a cartel no way yeah yeah so the so obviously I had an officer come over what they did was they popped off my driver side handle literally like pulled it clean off nearly popped the entire lock out of
It got into the truck disabled the horn and all like the security features in it wow and apparently this is a big problem at uh Denver International Airport which I thought it was safe inside of a lock uh the lot so yeah you’d think that’d be
The safest place to keep your car no apparently not and so theop came over he’s like oh yeah you know we’ve we’ve had dozens of trucks stolen so what they were actually going to do was steal the entire truck wow so apparently what the cartel does is they they bring an SUV in
Like eight people deep and then the first night they go and they scout out which trucks they want to take and they take pictures of it they go and disable the the security alarms on it and they steal uh the user manuals cuz Ford trucks have a way to like I guess reset
The codes on them and then they go and make a fob for it so they can actually start it up and drive it out of the lot so they have an entire operation oh yeah this he said this is 100% cartel it’s it’s organized and they they roll out
With 78 trucks at a time wow out of the parking lots and so luckily I had gotten back to it before they actually stole the whole thing but they were planning to steal the entire thing and they also managed to reset the safe that I have
Built into my my truck which had my firearm in it and they stole my my pistol so I to report that it stolen yeah so my my pistol was stolen the security alarms are all completely busted on it the horn doesn’t work and now I don’t even know like they there’s
A huge deep gash underneath my my handle where they like I don’t know if they like cut it or they Pride it off or something but the Lock’s gone so I don’t even know what what they’re going to have to do they’re going have to replace
The whole door or if the handle just has to be replaced man Denver Airport get it together over there no I know and I was like so you guys aren’t able to stop this and they’re like no they literally just they roll in and then they drive
All the vehicles right out they knock down the little arm to the thing and they just drive right out and they’re gone wow and they they change it up but he’s like what they do is these guys that are hired by the cartel to do this
Then get paid out per vehicle I think he said like my truck was worth 7,500 bucks cash to these guys at steal it and then they put them on in containers and send them to Mexico and then the cartel drives them wow in Mexico cuz that’s what they roll around in is pickup
Trucks down there well I was out of town the same time you were I mean I’m they’re not going to try and steal my Toyota Corolla I don’t think but I actually uh I took the train all the way from where I live the light rail how it
Goes all the way in there cuz yeah I don’t something in the back of my mind tells me I shouldn’t be parking my car at the lot but I guess this is why it’s like $30 a day too yeah yeah I paid $30 a day thinking it was safe I thought
There was cameras up there there’s no cameras and so so yeah so that was uh on my birthday too oh help you so that was a nice little happy birthday you know now you now I got to go uh get my my truck fixed and I don’t even know how
How what that’s going to be like cuz the locks gone so I’m like are you have to replace all the locks on the vehicle like it’s going to be a major pain man well sorry that happened so but otherwise I’m I’m doing good I’m I’m happy I’m alive it’s just a material
Thing true can be fixed at least it wasn’t gone had I gone you know been gone another day or two the truck was likely gone is what the cop said that would have been super sad and that would be really shitty cuz yeah uh on theide
Though you did get to see DC for the first time that was your first time there right it was my first time there yeah yeah it was really cool to see see all the monuments and stuff and went to the the White House and go in the white
House but yeah I don’t think they allow tours in there anymore do they I don’t think I think you can but you have to like go through your Senator and and it’s this whole process you have to get a background check and like it’s a whole
Month I was I was a kid and it was pre 911 and I actually got to do a tour I think I was like s years old or something but I actually got to go inside the White House yeah it’s a lot smaller than it looks yeah it is it’s
Like I mean it’s still a big house mhm but it’s definitely not like this sprawling Palace situation it’s like very much just like a I also thought it was kind of goofy in there it’s it’s like here’s the Red Room and the green room and they have all this I don’t know
It’s not kitchy but it’s it’s so dated a lot of the furniture well I don’t know this was Circa 2000 every president gets to like remodel it I think oh do they they like at least change out the carpets and the uh drapery and stuff
Like that they can like it was all gold I think when when Trump was there and I don’t know Biden changed it to but they were able to like kind of renovate it so how they want decorate it whoever it was it was either it had to have been
Clinton or or Bush Jr so whoever did it then had really bad taste B taste well yeah anyways Daniel how are you doing man I’m doing good man good good good well today we we’ve got a very um disturbing case for you and you’ve probably heard of it because
There’s a there was a documentary done by HBO fairly well done called Beware of the Slender Man yes we are going to be covering the Slender Man stabbings and going into that into great detail there’s a lot of discussion with this one because again we’re dealing with
Miners in this episode and so definitely a lot of of controversy around their punishment and kind of really looking at how this all went down and why creepy pasta I mean when I was doing I don’t know how long creepy POS has been around but I feel like I probably would have
Been a fan as a as a youngling if I had free range access to the internet I know by the time I was 16 17 it was pretty big not as big as it got in the end but I remember there were the days where people would post things and they almost
Seemed semi-real like it wasn’t after a while you just realize these are all completely made up but some of the older creepy pastas genuinely felt like someone’s true story from when they were growing up or something and they had these weird experiences but which as a young impressionable child
Like it’s very easy for Fantasy to kind of meld with reality yeah and in this case it’s exactly what happens but in the worst way possible but before we get into today’s episode just a couple things thank you to all of our new members we appreciate
You um if you’d like to join there’s a bunch of different perks on on the membership page on YouTube it’s an exclusive Club of low lives is what we’re calling them and uh it’s been fun to hang out with you guys in Discord um I’m working on getting some wallpapers
Made for you guys for computer phones which will be cool uh specifically of this this new picture that we’re kind of debuting it’s been next to Austin the last couple weeks but we thought let’s let’s switch things up a little bit and so this is now our main
Centerpiece really really cool and it’s us three three yeah yeah so like in the middle is me got the backwards hat we got Austin with the mullet and Daniel with the beanie and look at we’re in character today perfect got the beanie the mullet the Hat the Hat yeah also I
Haven’t mentioned this in a while but I do have a CBD company called Higher Love and uh right now we’re doing a huge sale on all of our CBD products from tincture oils to topicals to waxes Vape cartridges you name it if you’re looking for a way to chill out that isn’t going
To get you high or make you feel funny but just relax you overall I mean you can use it throughout the day at work there’s no THC so you don’t have to worry about any of that check it out Higher Love wellness.com sales from 20
To uh 50% off on some items so check that out we ship all over the place except for Canada unfortunately um but yeah that’s hlw wellness.com with that out of the way shall we jump in to the Slender Man stabbings so to start things off we’re going to
Give you some background on the two teens that are at the center of this case and that is Morgan geyser and Ana wire so Morgan geyser was a surprise baby she was born May 16 2002 and she became the light of her mother’s world even as a toddler she always marched to
The beat of Her Own Drum and from a young age she didn’t care what others thought of her this was impressive for a young girl since many kids usually worry about how their friends see them I know I did and her mother had supported Morgan’s differences But as time went on
She realized that these differences weren’t always positive there was something off about her Morgan didn’t react to things the same way that other kids reacted for example her mother remembered watching Bambi with Morgan for the first time and I think we’ve all seen Bambi yep honestly a pretty
Heartbreaking movie yeah starts it off pretty rough pretty rough yeah cuz most young children are scared and sad when Bambi’s mother gets shot by the Hunter and as Bambi scrambles to shelter the crack of a rifle rings out and in the end his mother doesn’t make it and most
Kids ball their eyes out at the scene but instead Morgan just yelled at Bambi to run faster and save himself and according to her parents she didn’t shed a single tear the entire movie this was the first sign that maybe something might have been off with Morgan as she got older she became
Obsessed with darker things as the online World opened up to her in her pre-teen years she became obsessed with this creature known as Slender Man a tall faceless schhol that had become a meme on the internet she was so obsessed that she would show her parents some of the
Stories and videos online her mother wasn’t thrilled about her interest but really didn’t see a bigger problem then and now never crossed her mind that Morgan thought that this internet sensation slender was actually real a lot of kids are fascinated with horror characters like Freddy Jason or
Michael Myers I mean I’m sure all of us have had characters that we liked in the horror genre I loved Michael Myers that was Michael Myers was my favorite yeah he terrified me I loved all the movies when I was a kid but I wasn’t really
Allowed to watch him so I kind of had to sneak him when they showed him on AMC late at night yeah Chucky was is uh oh yeah was one of my favorites I don’t know why I’ve always just had this fascination with dolls hence why I have
Annabelle in here now I just there’s something about it that’s always creeped me out and then obviously it was when I read that book for the first time as a as a kid I was like oh terrified of clowns for a while but at first and as a
Parent it’s just your kid enjoying things right like there’s no NE it’s not necessarily reason to raise an alarm and be like Oh my kid’s going to do what these characters do or is going to go down this dark Road as a result of consuming this kind of content so
Morgan’s parents really didn’t see a problem with it they kind of equated it to kids believing in Santa Claus right except this is a darker character of course but it’s this whole idea of like belief in something and that’s kind of a controversial issue is it good for kids
To believe in things like even Santa Claus or the e bunny or the Tooth Fairy because does that lend to them also believing into characters or ideas that maybe don’t have a you know light and fluffy outcome to them or something that they’re associated with I think for most kids it just
Sparks the imagination a little bit and after a certain point you realize that no like Santa Claus isn’t real so I don’t know I was pretty young when I it’s always like an older sibling who who drops that bomb but I don’t think it’s damaging in any way to believe in
Santa Claus I think it’s more just fun and yeah all kids do it yeah we all have imaginations so it’s like so you’re going to rob your kid of having an imagination by not allowing them to believe in any sort of fantasy like right I mean I’ve I’m sure I’ve said
This a million times on the show but I was absolutely instill him consumed by tolken universe and Lord of the Rings and just I found that at a young age like 10 years old and fell in love with it and I can’t even put my finger on
What it is exactly that I love so much about it I mean there’s it’s kind of all-encompassing but through games and media and books absolutely consumed by that Universe to this day I mean I’m tattooed with with this on me and I’m sure e both of you guys have examples of something
Like that like a fandom that you have that you’re kind of consumed with within whether it be you know good in the eyes of you know is it moral is it ethical or not but like was there something that you uh later in early in life Lord of the Rings was definitely I
Still spin the extended edition BL Rays every like once every few years um and then later I really got into Dune the Dune series uh so I would say those two those are it’s kind of a cop out cuz those like those are like the two biggest when you think of like fantasy
And sci-fi those are like the two top dogs but really I mean I think it’s because the World building was so interesting and so good it did feel real to some extent it’s an immersion factor to it yeah cuz I think it’s one thing to believe in a specific character but then
To believe in a whole universe is a whole other thing yeah and I think what maybe why we’re drawn to those is that tolken I think to some extent and Frank Herbert who wrote The Dune series they really lock themselves away in their study rooms and Dove really deep into
Those universes and I think that’s maybe why we can dive so deep into them as well as because the creators did so I think there’s some power there I like that what about you Daniel I know you have a few I mean I’m a huge Star Wars
Fan like you my entire right arm is all tattooed with Star Wars stuff so Star Wars was my my big thing and I think it’s cuz it was a it was the fandom that my dad and I kind of got into when I was younger and yeah just been a fan ever
Since and I know not all of not not everything that Star Wars has put out in the past 10 years has been great but I still love it just out of nostalgia totally well it’s even with any of these stories we just mentioned there’s it’s good versus evil is the theme right yeah
And as a fan of these universes I was a fan of the evil characters in it as well like I love the nasol I love I mean a huge fan of Sauron maybe not what he did to Middle Earth but but just the the dark aspects of it so I don’t think it’s
Out of the ordinary for a kid to be a fan of something darker you know what I mean it’s just kind of like sometimes you’re naturally drawn to it I mean we we have conscience of good bad and I think as a kid as you’re growing up you
Kind of lean into both of those at different times yeah and so you kind of you’re you’re just exploring in life and you’re just kind of feeling out out how you go about making decisions and you’re learning about morals and ethics and and so having both those types of stories
With good and evil it allows you to kind of lean into both sides of your your conscience in a way I don’t know if if that’s accurate at all but that’s just kind of way that that I kind of felt Dune was way more approachable when I
Was older too because it touches on the the heroes journey and how the Trope of a hero’s journey and how like it’s not always this easy route and sometimes what we see as a hero doesn’t really turn out to be a hero in the end and I
Always I love that concept which I don’t think I really could have grasped to too much when I was younger but that’s why yeah it kind of those ideas of what is right and wrong kind of those moralistic lenses that we can see those Works through they’re powerful yeah it
Is and like media shouldn’t be the only thing that’s giving you that information as a child obviously your parents play the largest role in teaching you right from from wrong and guiding you in the right way and if they see you start you know kind of only going down One path
And you’re never coming back to the other side then as a parent that should be a cause for concern in my opinion of like okay she’s only going down this road I haven’t seen her come back to this side in a while and it sounds like from an early age
Morgan was just kind of gravitated to to the darkness in a sense and that’s something that we can talk about more more later on maybe why that is and is there other underlying factors to that today’s episode is sponsored by acorns acorns helps you and your kids
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Acorns advisers LLC an SEC registered investment adviser broker Services provided by Acorn Securities LLC an SEC registered broker dealer and member f n r sic for more information visit acorns.com as for Morgan’s friend Ana wire she was born on October 10 2001 she grew up with an interest in singing and later joined
The school choir this was one of her biggest hobbies in school and one of the ways that she got out of the house and socialize with other kids when she was home her parents could hear her practicing her vocal lessons in her room and occasionally she had to FaceTime on
Her iPad with other students in the choir but her dad would pop his head in the room to ask who she was talking to and what they were working on and most days she had a hard cut off at 7:30 p.m. they would make her turn the iPad off
And spend time with the family downstairs but other days she would spend hours and hours on the internet her parents knew she really liked spending time online maybe a bit too much but they never saw any signs that she was up to something suspicious her bedroom door was usually open if she
Wasn’t practicing her singing and they kept an eyee on her but despite their constant watch over her she discovered very weird corners of the internet while browsing on her iPad what he didn’t know was that she was searching for disturbing things like animals killing other animals and when she met Morgan
Things were never the same Morgan and Ana eventually met in sixth grade because they rode the same bus to school Morgan’s parents were happy that Morgan had finally made a close friend in the quiet neighborhood of wakaa was conson she had struggled making friends so they were pretty happy to see Morgan
Socializing but they didn’t realize that her new best friend shared the same obsession with the Slender Man they were just happy that Morgan wasn’t lonely anymore the two girls would spend their evenings sharing videos online a lot of Ana’s social media posts were videos of funny cats bunnies eating raspberries or
Toaster malfunctioning typical stuff for pre-teens but deeper into her posts there were more disturbing videos of animals killing mice or quizzes you can take to see if you’re a psychopath or a sociopath she spent a lot of time on her iPad watching videos and the more videos
She watched the further down the rabbit hole she got her fifth grade teacher noticed she couldn’t connect with other kids at school and every few weeks she would start crying in the middle of class because the other kids were being mean to her so she started spending more
Time on the internet than talking with other kids and it wasn’t until Ana met Morgan that she finally had someone to hang out with in person it didn’t take long for them to both realize that they had the same obsessions with scary things on the internet especially slender men and they
Spent a lot of time talking about him and the horrific things he did to Children they’d even make sketches of him in their notebooks and shared stories about him at school and they both saw him like a strange imaginary friend they also saw the internet as a
Place where they fit in with others like them through most of School Morgan only had one other friend named Payton Lightner her friend called her Bella Morgan had known Bella since kindergarten and they had been good friends since fourth grade before they knew each other Bella had seen Morgan
Sitting alone in fourth grade by herself with no one to talk to so she went over and sat next to her this small gesture meant the world to Morgan ever since then Bella was one of Morgan’s only friends besides Ana it didn’t take long before all three of them started hanging
Out together but Bella wasn’t into the same stuff that Morgan and Ana were and she also thought that Nisa was cruel Bella knew about slender but she didn’t really have any interest in him like the other two cuz it scared her but she supported Morgan’s Hobbies because they
Were friends and she had no idea the crazy theories and plans they talked about in secret behind her back even though they were all friends Morgan and Ana had made a special private connection that Bella was never a part of and it all revolved around the stranger darker side of the internet and
This character called Slender man I’m sure many of you out there know exactly who Slender Man is you’ve probably seen him you’ve run across him I mean there’s been plenty of internet created horror characters another one that made the rounds a few years ago Momo oh yeah I’m
Sure you saw Momo honestly Momo scares me more than slender that face yeah terrifying just you know trying to Slenderman reminds me a lot of The Strangers movie The Mask that they wear kind of they kind of look like especially from afar they’re kind of have just that blank white nothing there
Face there but Slender Man became an internet phenomenon after being entered into an internet Photoshop contest on June 10th 2009 the contest asked users to create the best paranormal image they could Eric nudson later submitted two black and white images also known by his handle Victor surge the two Photoshop
Pictures showed images of children and behind them a tall thin spectral character lurked in the background the strange creature became known as Slender Man and His Image spread across the internet not long after and a bunch of different users started making different interpretations of him and he can be found in posts
Across Tumblr devian R YouTube and 4chan’s paranormal board Slenderman’s lore might date back to Medieval Germany in the legend of D Grossman in the 16th century Legend has it that The Tall Man as he was known stalked a village in Southwest Germany near the Black Forest parents of the young villagers warned
Their children not to go near the forest since this was where The Tall Man lived or if they stayed up too late the man would come and take them away this reminds me a lot of laurona it was almost like a tactic to keep their
Kids in line a little bit like go to bed on time you know kind going get a visit yeah exactly the children who dared Venture into the forest rarely returned home The Tall Man Would lure them deep into the trees by Whispering voices in their heads if the children caught a glimpse
Of D Grossman they would see he was incredibly tall and thin which made him blend in with the Trees of the Black Forest if they ever looked up at his head they would notice he had no facial features at all and sometimes multiple arms Grew From his chest like tree
Branches sometimes he had no hands on the the end and his arms were more like tentacles the only children who safely returned from the forest were children who went straight home and confessed what they had done to their parents in some versions of the tale once they were
In the forest they never returned home at all he would end up chasing them through the trees until he eventually caught them with his multiple arms and no one knows what he would do to the children since none of the captured victims ever survived to actually tell the
Tale but it’s it’s believed generally that this old German folk tale of D Grossman went on to inspire the modern Slenderman sure sounds like it and I think it’s important to note like this idea of using kind of horror paranormal creatures to to scare children into
Doing the right thing has been going on since virtually the beginning of time yeah I mean you look at Krampus you look at all these other you know sort of crypted creatures and and paranormal and brothers grim and Hansel and gredle and all these these stories of kids encountering these evil beings and
Creatures throughout adventures and you’ll probably cross that bridge with Holly eventually where you’re just like look I can’t logically explain why you have to go to bed you just need to or else some Something’s Gonna snatch it or the boogeyman yeah there you Go’s kind of like the boogeyman yeah he’s a modern
Day Boogeyman yeah yeah only 10 days after Eric nson released his images of Slenderman in 2009 the figure also started showing up in online videos and that’s where things take a turn when you people start creating the videos and nowadays with technology the videos look sometimes very real yeah and it’s honestly pretty
Scary like some of the videos that are out there with Slender Man I’m not going to lie are pretty creepy it’s always like people running and he’s just barely get a glimpse of him or something he’s just like in a window somewhere but one of the most famous was a web series
Called Marble Hornets posted on June 20th 2009 the story follows a young Film School student who stumbles on Slenderman while filming his first featurelength film project in only 3 years the channel got 250,000 subscribers and 55 million views several more series were inspired by the story including Everyman hybrid and tribe 12
But soon there was countless videos of SlenderMan sightings that were posted weekly around the world and they were often shot like found footage horror movies and Slenderman can be seen in the background stalking children there was also a video game called Slender the Eight Pages in 2012 and in the game
You’re stocked by Slendermen as you gather lost pages of art scattered around a foggy Forest the more pages you get the thicker the fog becomes and the faster slender stalks you this internet monster even made it to the Silver Screen in 2018 in the movie Slender Man as Slender Man’s popularity spread
Creepy pastas about him also went viral at the peak of his popular ity for those who don’t know we’ve mentioned this at the beginning creepy pasta is basically just a popular Horror Story that gets copied and pasted across the internet over and over and as it spreads other
Users often tweak the story and add to it but it’s really written in kind of this like firstperson point of the view most of the time where it’s like people experiencing The Entity or or creature so it feels more real right these creepy poses about Slender Man eventually
Reached Morgan and Ana and they became obsessed with reading different horror stories on creepy pasta wiki website Slender Man constantly changes depending on who’s telling the story but mostly they all have similar descriptions and I kind of told you a little bit about what he looks like but he’s a very tall thin
Figure between 6 to 14t he’s always wearing that black suit it seems like he doesn’t have a face which is I think partly what makes him so creepy and his skin is blank white and he rarely ever speaks but when he does it’s usually through telepathy
He’s known to stalk his prey which are often young kids and in fan-made photos and videos he can be seen hiding in dark forests stalking playgrounds scaling walls and sneaking into bedrooms at night but since he’s an internet meme his stories have changed through the years and this might be the scariest
Part about Slender Man especially for children he can be whatever you imagine him to be he is literally the modern day Boogeyman and for Ana and Morgan the Slender Man was a collection of everything that they feared Ana believed he quietly stalked his prey and read
Their minds when he was ready to attack his slimy tendrils would explode from his back and wrap around his victim’s neck some theories suggest that the Mythos of Slenderman is brought on by this concept it’s called the topa effect have you ever heard of this I haven’t
Heard of the topa effect what’s that I’ll try and give it to you in layman’s terms but the idea stems from Buddhist ideology but the effect it’s B basically this idea that if enough people believe that something is real it can actually manifest in the real world that’s the
General gist of of what the you know what this reminds me of have you ever seen the movie The Empty man no oh have you seen it no you haven’t seen the empty man no oh man don’t you guys think they should watch that movie so that’s I’m pretty sure that is a
Depiction exactly of what TOA is oh really yeah so it’s like it’s this entity that a bunch of people sort of believe in and bring to life it ends up being like kind of like a cult but it’s weird because there’s a scene of I think it’s like in the Tibetan Mountains and
The it’s like the skeleton that is the empty man I believe I could be wrong but people like pilgrimage up to it to him and like crazy [ __ ] happens and there’s this whole group of people that all believe in the power of this empty but they’ve essentially Manifest this entity
Um to life that has to be inspired by I think that’s exactly what it is but honestly one of the best horror movies I’ve seen in recent years really yeah I mean it’s I don’t even know it’s necessarily horror it’s more probably more Thriller than horror movie but okay
Creepy very good very well done you guys would like it and it tracks if you’re saying it was in the Tibetan TI mountains Budd ideology kind of I think that’s exactly what it’s based on gotcha a toet exists in a shared mind and it has its own identity and autonomy and
There are entities that are just strictly generated in the mind but unlike something like an imaginary friend who we kind of control toas can just completely act and think on their own once they’re manifested in the real world did you ever have an imaginary friend grown up no no I never did yeah
Me neither Danny no yeah no I never went went went there for some reason and I would I would assume that people that have imaginary friends sometimes don’t have as many real human friends and I mean I could be wrong on that but yeah I never never like had an
Imaginary friend I knew people that did like oh yeah this is my imaginary friend I’m like cool can’t don’t see him yeah sorry I mean I was friends with like my toys like I my toys would have names and like they were my quot quote friends but
At least they were tangible I guess same yeah that yeah I guess that kind of counts but I did too I had the same thing but so if you could tie that into kind of Morgan and Ana they’re obviously not the most popular kids in school they
Don’t have many friends so you know tying this back into this kind of imaginary friend concept but the difference with topas is that they are their own entities in the end of the day it’s like when in the writing World they say that if you can create a character
Good enough and it feels like its own person this story just writes Itself by the end of it I know kind of Tarantino talks about that in his movies where he’s like the last act should kind of write itself because once you get all these characters manifested and they
Feel genuine enough it should kind of just lead the way so it’s in it’s in that kind of vein but in the case of a TOA it’s not a demonic possession dissociative identity disorder or a psychotic break it is just its own thing in the ideology and in the case of Slender
Man as his popularity grew so many people believed that he was real that the theory goes that maybe he did manifest you know in some way um for some that it wasn’t just an internet meme anymore it was a real creature that you come across in your everyday life so
Could you attribute this to a lot of Cryptids out there like people who believe in Bigfoot that is kind of in the same vein which there is some physical evidence and some other stuff that backs the existence of Bigfoot up yeah not saying that it’s just like this manifest and madeup creature necessarily
But I think a lot of people look at that is that’s an example of of TOA TOA effect of get enough people to believe in this thing it becomes real yeah or really any I mean any crypted for that matter would basically be but it is a little bit different
Because a lot of the Cryptids are based on real life actually existing creatures or they’re like hybrids and things like that so maybe that’s not a great example but yeah and since this is I think that is the one big difference is this was more like an internet meme which I don’t
Think we’ve ever seen any Cryptids just come from the internet you know it’s interesting though I was just I was just looking up TOA while you’re explaining uh what it is and apparently modern practitioners use the term topam mancers for themselves oh yeah I know
People do it they sit in a room and they generally just try and manifest things into reality it’s this willed imaginary friend which practitioners consider to be sentient and relatively independent and modern practitioners predominantly consider toas to be a psychological IAL entity versus a paranormal concept which that makes sense yeah I
Can see that it’s prodct product of the Mind Right wow so then it comes down to do you believe you can manifest things with your mind and like how powerful can you will things into existence and that’s a whole another it’s like more of a theological if I had that power I’d just
I’d quit my job and I’d just start willing things into existence constantly cuz then I mean that leads you to like the Law of Attraction and everything else it’s Do You Believe In The Law of Attraction uh no but I think that the positivity that comes from that mindset is kind of
How you get what you want if you set a goal for yourself and you just believe that these things will happen I think just that positive mindset it’s the like Foundation you need to work towards accomplishing your goal and cuz I think at the end of the day you have to do the
Work act on it yeah sure sure interesting Tola the TOA effecto TOA interesting concept I had never heard of it until this case sentient imaginary friend conjured up through thought for Morgan and Ana they began to believe that Slender Man was a strange Guardian Angel he was the Grim Reaper but with a
Gentle heart he could be violent but also merciful some stories they read even mentioned Slendermen watching over the children and protecting them from harm even though it seemed like he was stalking them the two girls might have seen Slender Man as just another lonely friend but the idea of a friendly
Predator isn’t anything new everyone knows the medieval story of the pi Piper right he eventually lures all the children out of town and into a secret chamber in the mountains side never to be seen again he’s a character that’s been depicted in different ways through the centuries and people argue over
Whether he’s good or evil the story of a mysterious character haunting children is an old tale because there’s something Universal about it and Morgan and Ana were sucked into this idea of a real boogeyman watching their every move especially because they were children but their fear stemmed from reality
Morgan would see things in the news where Predators captured kids and did Terrible Things to them she saw that there were real boogey men out there in the world and Morgan struggled with separating fantasy from reality like most kids do but to a much more extreme
Level kids already open to the idea of fantasy characters existing in real life like Santa Claus and tooth fairy or even a monster under your bed but Morgan believed in Slender on a whole different level he wasn’t just a story or a photoshopped image he was real after becoming friends
And bonding over their obsession with Slender Man Morgan told Ana that she had seen slender when she was only 5 years old this wasn’t just a spooky story Morgan genuinely believed she saw him and that he even haunted her dreams Morgan believed that when Slenderman stocked his prey he could infiltrate his
Victim’s dreams and his victims can see him when no one else does even though slender scared Ana and Morgan something about his paranormal Powers excited them they became obsessed with the idea that Slenderman might be some sort of dark and twisted Guardian Angel out there so they dug deeper and deeper into the
Creepy pastas and the SL man lore Ana eventually believed that Slenderman had these things called proxies which were his servants Morgan convinced Ana that they should try to become the Slender Man’s proxies and Ana agreed but she asked how they could make it happen and sometime in December of 2013 Morgan had
An idea she told Ana they needed to kill their friend Bella it was the only way to convince Slenderman that they were loyal to him at first the idea was only a sick fantasy that they talked about in private and if they successfully became proxies they would get to live in
Slender Mansion a place where all the other Creepy Pasta characters lived it was a massive house that they believe existed somewhere in Nicolet National Park Ana was surprised at Morgan’s idea but she couldn’t deny that she was also excited as time went on it wasn’t just about becoming a proxy Morgan soon
Believed that slender could personally communicate with her according to her he appeared one night while she slept he stood over her bed stretching his long skinny body over her his blank face looked down and he telepathically communicated to her in a low gurgling voice that echoed through her head he
Threatened to kill Morgan and an’s families if they didn’t become his proxies shocked Morgan told Ana what he had said to her and over time Ana came to believe her the two girls were terrified that their families could be brutally murdered if they didn’t listen to what he said
So they began to think of a plan while their delusion spiraled out of control for Morgan’s 12th birthday she had a sleepover with her friends over at her parents house on May 30th 2014 it had been nearly 5 months since they first came up with the idea to kill
Their friend Bella for her birthday Morgan invited Ana and Bella over to Morgan’s Mom it just looked like any other sleepover the three girls were giggling and joking with each other and as far as she could tell there was nothing to be worried about during the
Day they went to skatel land a roller skating center Morgan’s mom watched as they all had fun roller skating holding hands and laughing just having a good time and afterward they went back to Morgan’s house the girls in headed into the basement where Ana pulled out her
IPad and Bella pulled out her tablet everyone played on their devices watching videos and playing games according to Morgan the two girls secretly prepared to attack Bella that night they even gave each other code names Morgan was Kitty and Ana was scorpion the initial plan was to kill
Bella in the basement and cover her with blankets to make it look like she was sleeping then they would leave her there and run away from the house but they didn’t go through with it they both decided that Bella would get one more day to live so they went back to their
Devices and eventually fell asleep that night the next morning May 31st 2014 they had donuts and strawberries for breakfast the three girls laughed and seemed like they were having a good time Morgan’s mom was happy to see her daughter enjoying time with her friends it was rare for Morgan to have any
Friends over especially where sleepover when they were done eating they asked if they could go over to David’s Park which was not far from the house they said that they were going to bird watch and play games and Morgan’s mom didn’t think anything of it before they left Morgan
Said goodbye to her mom and she told her she loved her but just before leaving Morgan secretly grabbed a knife with a 5-in blade from the kitchen block and snuck it into her jacket pocket as they headed out and walked to the park she lifted up her jacket and showed Ana the
Knife she made sure that Bella wasn’t looking that was the moment Ana realized they were actually going to fall through with her evil plan they were really going to try and murder their friend Bella as they walked toward the park all Ana could think about was the fear of
Seeing her friend’s dead body the last time she saw one was at her uncle’s funeral and she didn’t want to see another one she began feeling anxious and sick when they got to the park they played on the swings in the jungle gym before heading over to the public
Bathroom the bathroom was dark and damp and no one else was around as Ana looked down she noticed a small drain in the center of the floor they thought about stabbing Bella letting her blood flow down the drain and hiding her in the bathroom stall at that moment Ana remembered all
The creepy pasta wiki she had read about killing people she had read that it was easier to kill people while they were unconscious because if their eyes were open the killer could see the reflection in them and it would be like killing themselves so Ana asked Bella if she
Could close her eyes and put herself to sleep but Bella refused and looked at her two friends in confusion seeing that she wouldn’t listen Ana clenched her fist and hit Bella in the head she stumbled backward and HIIT her head against the bathroom wall before falling to the
Floor then Morgan whispered to Ana saying that she had to do it but after they both hesitated Morgan began freaking out she realized that their plan had finally become real and she was too scared to follow through when Ana saw Morgan freaking out she hugged her
Hoping to Cal or down neither of them could commit to stabbing their friend as Bella got up from the floor confused they all left the bathroom Ana tried to change plans and said they should all go into the woods and play hideand-seek instead Bella tried to brush off what
Had just happened she couldn’t even imagine what her two friends had planned behind her back but she figured something was off so she told the other girls that she didn’t want to play hide-and seek to try and make her feel better Morgan and Ana told her that she
Could pick a game for them to play as they wandered away from the bathroom Ana LED Bella Into the Woods at the edge of the park Morgan followed not far behind they talked casually and tried to make everything seem normal again when Morgan caught up to Ana she secretly handed her
The knife without Bella seeing then the two of them made up a new plan again Morgan told Ana that she had to be the one to do it but Ana handed the knife back to her telling her that if she wanted Bella dead she would have to do
It herself again she reminded her to make sure Bella was unconscious first so she couldn’t look into her eyes Morgan then made a deal with Ana she said she would stab Bella but only when Ana commanded her too they argued back and forth for a few minutes until Ana agreed
After stepping a few Paces away from them Ana turned to check to see if anyone was around she then turned to Morgan and said Kitty now Morgan then whispered to Bella don’t be afraid I’m only a little kitty cat then she lunged at Bella and tackled her to the ground
She pinned her down and sat on her leg so she couldn’t move as she bent down to whisper into Bella’s ear she said I’m so sorry she then stabbed Bella in the Torso over and over Morgan stabbed Bella 19 times across her body as she was
Doing it she thought it didn’t feel like anything when the knife pierced the skin she said it felt like air as she pulled the knife out of the wounds and stabbed her again Bella screamed I trusted you and after several stablon she whispered I hate you as Morgan kept stabbing her
She began to fade and she kept saying I can’t see I can’t see but during the entire attack Bella never lost Consciousness after Morgan finished stabbing her she stood up and looked down at her friend covered in blood lying in the dirt Ana then grabbed Bella’s legs and began dragging her from
The the road deeper into the woods when she let go Ana began to feel guilty and she told Bella to lie down and keep quiet so she wouldn’t lose blood as quickly then she lied promising Bella they would go and get help but instead they just abandoned her
And left her to slowly die in the woods and the two girls took off running as fast as they could the plan was to run as far as possible until they reach the Slenderman mansion and then Nicolet Forest but they didn’t realize that the forest was nearly 2004 mes away they
Would never make it after a while Ana began to second guess everything her legs grew tired and she began crying all she wanted to do was call her mom and tell her everything that had happened but Morgan stopped and told her that she would spend the rest
Of her life in prison if she did that she even told her they might be executed for what they did after that Ana fell to the ground crying and she began blaming Morgan for everything then Morgan started to cry along with her which surprised an because Morgan rarely cried
The two girls then just sat in the woods together for a while just crying after a moment Morgan said slender if you’re listening help us she thought that they might have become proxies after stabbing Bella and he might help them now like a guardian angel but of course nothing
Happened during all of this Bella bleeding out in the woods somehow found the strength to crawl out she made it to the edge of David’s Park and found the closest road where she was spotted by a man on a bicycle can only imagine what that cyclist saw and how he
Fell when he saw Bella crawl out of the woods and so he called the police here’s audio from that call Anderson your emergency trans over caller on Big B at the dead end just south of Rivera and He Came Upon a 12-year-old female she appears of being
Stabbed she appears to be what stabbed stabbed okay are you still there yes hi sir so is are you with this 12-year-old female yes she says she’s having trouble breathing she said she was stabbed multiple times stabbed multiple times yeah okay sir are you with her right now
Yes is she awake she’s awake is she breathing yeah she’s breathing she’s said she can take shallow breath she’s alert okay stay with her we’re sending the police department don’t hang up okay okay okay well I SM so we’re setting officers is there any as salant
Around ah I didn’t even look I don’t see anybody is there any bleeding going on her clothing has got blood on it where are the wounds do you see where the wounds are no I’m I don’t know if I should be rolling her over and checking
Or not okay just stay with her and just let me know if she’s pches or alert or stop bre anything hold on I’m going to talk to the ambulance police are also in route un bothering you at all shade okay did that you I don’t do
I when police arrived they asked who did this to her and all Bella could say was her friends they then rushed her to the hospital and discovered that two of the wounds had sliced through major organs cutting into her liver and her stomach another St missed the major artery of
Her heart by less than a millimeter that’s wow if the blade had connected to that artery she most likely would have died before ever reaching the hospital after arriving at the ER Bella would go through 6 hours of surgeries and spent almost an entire week in the hospital
Being treated for her multiple wounds Morgan and Ana were eventually spotted off of I94 at a nearby furniture store door they had walked almost 5 miles before giving up and the two of them clearly looked suspicious since they were both covered in dark red blood when the local sheriff pulled up
To the store he approached the girls and noticed that they looked completely out of it when he asked Ana why she looked so scared she said that if she told him he would think she was crazy he then searched her bag and found a kitchen knife covered in blood he then brought
Both of the girls back to the station for questioning and at the police station the two girls were in ated separately without their parents or an attorney present and both were very open about what had happened here are some of those clips from their interrogations just a heads
Up to audio isn’t great so if you’re listening on audio platform maybe check out the video on Spotify or YouTube because we do have subtitles will I regret giving you this information later you know this information we used to try to get you some help so you don’t have to hear
Those screams and don’t have to worry about Hur anybody anymore okay abely go here okay so we got to figure out how we’re going to do that so the isn’t the WM over by PDQ where that’s at you think that’s when you went to sure I don’t know you don’t
Know is there anything else you remember that was a arounder no I just remember that we went forward to forward and forward and then we passed a bunch of buildings we went through downtown Locka we went everywhere and actually we were singing the whole time we just start singing
Songs to each other we were surprisingly calm actually it was like we hadn’t just killed someone we killed someone or St so how did you guys did you guys get a ride for me what you guys just kept walking no we got we got there by ourselves do you remember walking around the railroad tracks or Street we walked across the railroad tracks one time and
Then we went we went into a field like ditches with with forests and trees and I remember we tried to find Slender try to find who Slender who Slender he’s um he’s a This Tall faceless man who prays on Children there name a force and we couldn’t help ourselves so is a tall faceless man mhm we sure if I did what sure if I did because said he could help us i s of thought that he might kill us if we did find him though because he has
A tendency to do that have you ever met him no we’ve never seen him who tells you about him he’s everywhere you because I’ve read so many things about him why did you re so botom how craa thinks he’s real and she also thinks Jeff the Killer is real because
There’s somebody in Milwaukee who’s called a smiley face killer and she thinks that Jeff the Killer’s him and then there was did you looking creepy what creepy pasta that’s a website uhuh it’s called creepy Wikia wa creepy pasta. Wikia do do something so kept going forward until
The police sta you mhm you know what happens to the knif after understand I put it back in the bag and walked did you clean it all uh not really I sort of BL it off on my jacket it was weird I felt No Remorse I thought I
Would CU I still have this idea and my had that it was necessary see you didn’t is wor that you didn’t feel your remorse mhm actually felt nothing Anda had me think for her and she said she was scared and she wondered what we gotten ourselves into this time so that was Morgan
Giving some initial words to the investigator I do want to say right I think it’s a major issue that police are investigating minors without a parent present or a lawyer or a lawyer at the very you know at least I think it’s taking advantage of their authority over them by making
Them feel like that’s not an option before they start talking to police but I’m the the words I felt No Remorse I felt nothing is very chilling to hear come out of her mouth and I think lends to where she where she was at mentally yeah and just how deep into this they
Were and she also mentioned she felt it was necessary there was something necessary about what they were doing which is also chilling and they’re telling the investigator about Slender Man like as if it’s just a matter of fact right yeah like oh yeah Slender Man that’s what
We’re doing this for yeah he’s this faceless man you stabbed um Pon I don’t really know I figured that i’ get me in trouble eventually though because Um mommy always says that whatever you do catches up to you eventually and it did you guys think about what would happened to you I did Ana didn’t seem to think anything would happen one time she said can we come home yet and I said no we’re
Going to get arrested if we go home and then she said oh yeah I forgot thanks Morgan and then I said okay try told I wanted to be loed up so that I couldn’t hurt her but that time is p and not I’m in here because we were careless I knew this would
Happen I knew we’d get in trouble well we’re just trying to sort the C right now to figure out what all happened so you wanted to get locked up so you canol I don’t want I wanted to I didn’t really genuinely want to be locked up but at one point I sort of
Did just it seemed so you guys decided a while ago that in the sleep overnight that this is yeah why do you think it was your sleep overnight that because it we were all we would all be together it was a Flawless plan actually I wanted to hurt people before
But they’re not nice to me so they deserve it why did you want to hurt her because I it was necessary why was it necessary I don’t Know to the bathroom did you by the trees at the dead End hide and seek what’s that I already told you so you guys got the knife from your mom’s house you guys ended up going to the park and then you guys went down by the woods why did you guys go over by the woods because we knew what we had to
Do we led her there and tricked her the last thing she said was me to to me was I trusted you and then and she said I hate you and then we lied to her Ana said that she’d go get help I didn’t have anything to do with the lying while that
Was all Ana she said we were going to go get how did you trick her to get down there we said that we were going to go bird Watching people who trust you become very gullible and it was sort of sad so you guys told going down there to bir watch and then what happened and then we said that we were going to play hide and seek and then hea jumped her and then it was like it
Happened really fast I keep trying to forget so you to play hide and seek mhm because normally we like playing hide and seek because hide seeks a fun game I like hiding so you and then Anisha jumped her mhm and she said Morgan now well actually she said Kitty because our
Code names for each other were Scorpion and kitty she was scorpion because she tends to be aggressive things like that so she said Kitty now and what do that mean um my name was Kitty because well she sort of I have four cats at home and she says that I act
Like a cat sometimes I she said Kitty now what did you do then we stapped her Who had who stabed her first I think um he stapped her first and then I continued and then like she was like margan make sure she doesn’t escape and then it was like uh
So you think that it was an an for us mhm you sure yeah not really sort of confusing because I’ve been trying to block out the streams all day so how many times so then how did you get the knife from ANA she sort of just Shu it into my hand there it
Was and then I didn’t know what I did it was it sort of just happened it didn’t feel like anything it was like air so she put the knife in your hand and where’ you go I just contined to you know what happened didn’t you didn’t I actually really don’t
Somebody else is talking to her I need they continue to stammer mhm and then we decided that then Nisa said that it was enough and then Bella was like I can’t see I can’t see and then I said I’m sorry this had to happen and she was
Like why am I I said that I was just was necessary I can’t I can’t explain why please don’t cut off my head nobody’s going to cut off your hand so I have so you guys how many times you think you stay after I don’t know it happened very quickly all I
Heard was screaming how many times did you guess I don’t Know you see me in your clams oh I’ve seen him in my dreams but if can if he’s shocking you you see him in your dreams and you just see him when no one else does and you Ser to be affected by something that’s called Thunder sickness because of the sigma
Radiation I see this say that one again you start to get um something that people call goodness it’s um he’s like following s radiation that he which is also like Camas don’t work around what are your thoughts on Morgan’s testimony there yeah it’s hard to say um cuz it’s interesting
That she tries to depended on Ana even though she’s confessing everything she still tries to say that Ana stabbed her first like I think she still has some concept of getting into trouble with the law so I’m not sure why she’s so open about everything else but then she’s
Like no it was Ana who stabbed her first and then I I went ahead and did it too um she’s clearly intelligent yeah is is what I’m getting especially there at the end she’s talking about EMF and radiation I mean these are and intelligent teenagers I mean this is
Bringing me back to Nicholas Browning quite a bit I think they’re 12 and they’re younger yeah yeah they’re even younger and so by a few years but even even so they seem fairly mature for their age for a 12-year-old MH um I mean she speaks very well as far as
Like what what happened what they were doing and I just can’t get over the the cold coldness of her voice whenever she’s describing especially stabbing yeah just there’s no emotion there whatsoever of like that’s our friend I mean this was their good friend like their only friend really she kept
Saying it was necessary and then she’s like I’ve just tried to forget it and there was like so much screaming but she says it in such a plain voice yeah I mean it’s clearly so evident that they were just delusional absolutely delusional about what everything that just happened
And really about their whole belief system in general and slender and that they really felt like they were doing something that had a real effect to it and the real effect was ultimately them getting arrested and and all that but in their minds they really thought they were going
To go see the Slender Man yeah and ultimately I mean or they’re just doing a good job at using that as their excuse at this point and that’s that’s the hard part too is like do they really believe in this or is that just the excuse they’re using to
Try and seem like they’re you know they were just crazy and they wanted to but in actuality they were coldblooded killers they know what they were doing do you think like a 12-year-old has the capacity that’s the hard part I mean that’s the major major controversy there
And but then I but then you think you know I think everything can stem back to this idea of are people born evil or are they born good and they develop this evil over time or it’s always within them and certain things bring it out of them I mean it’s
A whole whole other thing but yeah I think mental illness also has a play as we’ll see mental illness is definitely a major factor and in this case but let’s let’s hear a little bit from ANA what she said um this is about Morgan she can be
A little jumpy and might get off task and look around and forget what she’s saying in the middle of a sentence a lot okay cuz like she says she hears voices too but I just wanted to tell you so so we’re aware of that maybe
Can put off by that then okay well thank you for telling me that okay it’s weighing a bit heavier on her than it is Morgan I do think it’s interesting that that’s like one of the first things she says about Morgan yeah is that she hears
Voices cuz do you think that they looked up consequences for this action like do you think they looked up like what might happen if we get caught and arrested and is there a way to play this and in a similar way that Nicholas did a horrible job at trying to play you know
Like the insanity card and I’m crazy and because it seems like that’s an overarching theme among many of these types of cases and I think it’s also this a major misunderstanding of and I know I thought the same thing when I was younger too is like if you’re crazy then
They just put you in a hospital and you know that’s a better punishment than being sent to prison for the rest of your life and I almost wonder if they looked that up and read into that a little bit and I hence why she’s kind of
Saying this or is this all genuine her being just truthful about the situation yeah that’s a good question I know that you know apparently when they were walking after they had committed the stabbing Morgan does bring up you know Ana kind of falls down crying and and
Morgan’s like we’re going to go to prison if we don’t just keep walking we got to keep going to you know find the Slender Mansion or whatever it was but so she clearly knew that prison was uh potential and she even goes so far as to
Say we might get executed for doing this so I think at least Morgan did understand that there were Ram ramifications for doing something like this now yeah that’s a good question though I never really thought of that when Ana is saying you know Morgan hears voices is she just letting them know
That Morgan’s a little maybe she’s got something going on or is she yeah is she playing into this like okay maybe we can play the Insanity card I don’t know if a 12-year-old can I don’t know I guess that is a time when I don’t know I don’t
Think you’re you’re capable of Lying by then and and being a little conniving but that would be quite a feat I think for a 12-year-old to uh try and play that card I don’t think it’s out of the realm of possibility though I think at that age you’re I mean you’re able to
Depending on who you are you’re able to read at a high level and they have the internet at their fingertips I mean they can look anything up watch a video and I think you can comprehend to some extent what’s going on my the biggest question I have
Is how did they not look at how far this forest was like how did they make such a big misjudgment there yeah and that is the piece that brings me back to their 12 they aren’t able to really put everything together quite the same as say a 15-year-old could who’s going to be
Turning 16 who can drive you know the development there there is a big jump from 12 to 15 16 yeah and maybe it’s just the concept of distance didn’t really make sense to them maybe they never realized like how far a mile is they didn’t realize maybe
They’ve never walked you know a mile or multiple miles before so maybe they just assumed that 20 240 Mi was a walkable distance but that to me is like a major question mark in my head of like why it seems like everything else is pretty understood they seem to have some
Knowledge around what they did the punishments the consequences but they made a major error when it comes to the distance at which they would have to go to get to Slender Man’s Mansion yeah they’re still clearly very naive and don’t understand a lot of things it’s a good
Point what else did he have to say so did you think that you actually had to kill somebody to do it yeah like for real okay yeah and then there’s another killer called um Jeff the Killer on the creepy Pastor Wiki but he is um actually a real person Jeffrey Woods he
Supposedly murdered his whole family so M there um found that out is like okay so we know at least Jeff is real okay so we wanted so we got our hopes up and toau that everybody else was real okay and then Jeff is called what online Jeff the Killer and supposedly he
Um he went insane so he burned off his eyelids and took a butcher knife and cut a big smileing his face and his his both me long black hair about down to here and um ice blue eyes that’s is whaty said also and he killed a bunch of people
Mhm including his own family that’s what the fortunate anyway okay so he’s considered a slender no he’s considered a killer he’s considered a killer okay H just a killer yep and he’s known to exist news reports say that he exists if you go on Google Images and search Jeffrey Wood’s news
Article a bunch of news articles will come up and then there’ll be a picture of excuse me a 17-year-old boy with um who kind of looks like me but has but it was a black and white picture MH and he had kind of the same hair as me also okay did you
Cut your hair to make it look like no no it was just coincidence coincidence and so you guys knew that Jeff the Killer an actual killer in this triangle exists so you thought it would be exciting to find out hey if we can prove if we can be a proxy and prove and
Do this kill kill Bella then we know that slender exists if we saw him actually me we think we see in sometimes okay like when we were walking up to where to where we were going um we saw him like I saw him out of the
Corner of my eye on this side okay and then Morgan said she heard twg crack when no one was moving so today as after everything happened with Bella when you guys were walking you thought you saw Splendor as you wereing was after Morgan stopped her okay she thought that possibly he
Would see a SL okay she brought up uh Jeff the Killer which is another Creepy Pasta thing and she was so convinced that this was a real person which as far as I could find is not a real person but that’s kind of the that was the gimmick
Of creepy pasta for so long was that yeah it was like really trying to convince these people that whoever was reading it that these things actually did happen um so yeah then she ties it into Slender Man they’re like okay well if this exists and this is on creepy
Pasta and this is in the same vein of things that we’re already reading about that must mean there must be truth to slender as well which I find fascinating yeah and and your research skills as a 12-year-old aren’t great I mean she mentioned type in Jeffrey Woods Google
Images and and I did as she was saying this and there is an image of a boy that comes up but it’s linked back to there’s no notable source that it goes back to it goes back to blogs or other people talking about Jeff the Killer it’s just
A picture of this young boy but there is no Jeff wood or Woods associated with being a killer or anything like that the closest thing I found to was a man named Jeffrey Lee wood and he is on death row in Texas um what was his crime do you know
I mean it must have been murder yeah he he murdered um somebody but he apparently had the IQ of a child um so it’s very controversial um death penalty case but but yeah I don’t think it has any association with where Jeffrey the killer came from so
Just it’s completely made up but because she found some images through Google she’s thinking it’s legit and and it’s a real picture of a boy right as far as we know I mean it honestly to me the image looks like uh created on the computer or photoshop or something like that doesn’t
Even look like a real image and there’s only one of it one of this boy here’s here’s what else she had to say did you think that that you guys killed Morgan um or I mean uh PT yeah um I at first Morgan said I should do it
And that she didn’t know what to do so I hand and so I handed her the knife that she brought with and um said you do it I’m too squeamish and um she got the knife from her her house we asked her mom if we could play outside at her and park and
Her mom said sure So we were playing at the park and then I said hey why don’t we go take a while walk so we W walked and then re SC train that we went into and then we were trying to play hide and seek in the train to like distract her
So Morgan and I were also debating on who does the deed and um at first it was me but like I said I was too screamish and said no you do it so um Morgan said whenever you want so like I finally just had enough and
Said it now cuz I was starting to get a little freaked out and then Morgan jumped on top of Bella started stabbing her repeatedly and that’s when I turned around cuz I couldn’t stand to see that okay and then um the whole time P was screaming and
Begging saying stuff like I hate you guys I’ll never forgive you and I trusted you still sorry as you can probably here another major difference is that Ana seems to be showing emotion and visible grief and remorse there it seems like she clearly feels bad about what
She did a much different demeanor than compared to Morgan but from those clips it does seem like she’s shifting blame to Morgan yep and like oh I was sort of Guilty By Association as opposed to being the one actually doing the deed and it was really Morgan kind of seems
Like they’re trying to shift the blame to each other yeah in each of their interrogations also during the interrogation officers checked Ana’s phone and found a goodbye letter to her mom in the letter she said that she hop they would remember her for good things that she did and that she wasn’t going
To hurt anyone else after the investigation Morgan was charged with attempted first-degree murder and Ana was charged with attempted second deegree murder Wisconsin and law required that they both be tried as adults and face up to 65 years in prison even though they were only 12 years old
During the crime the lawyers argued that they should be tried as children in the Juvenile Justice System where they would be released by the age of 18 but the court disagreed so obviously after there was a lot of light shed on this case the big thing was Psychiatry
Psychologists had to come in because I mean even if you just watched some of that and listening to the things that they were saying there’s probably you know it’s clearly there were things to unpack mentally here so when psychologists first made their statements in court they determined that
Ana was not susceptible to schizotypal personality disorder and the psychologists also believed that Ana did not have traits of a psychopath or a sociopath but this was a long road to determine their Mental Health and later three mental health experts did diagnose her with a shared delusional disorder or
A shared psychotic disorder also known as Folly ad do which we’ve talked about Madness for two right and this is essentially when paranoid delusions are transmitted from one person to another in this case Morgan usually we’ve talked about this there’s one instigator there’s one person that holds the main
Paranoia and then the second person kind of buys into it so in this case Morgan was seen as the instigator of the paranoid delusion and the delusion was that they needed to kill for Slender and one of those reasons was to become a proxy and one of the other reasons was
Remember they they felt threatened by slender they thought he was going to kill their entire family so in this case Ana was the one that bought into that delusion as for Morgan she was later diagnosed with schizophrenia and oppos Oppositional Defiant Disorder Oppositional Defiant Disorder is when someone is easily annoyed and
Loses their temper often and according to the Mayo Clinic early onset schizophrenia is extremely rare in children under 13 and Morgan was only 12 at the time of the stabbing so this was an extremely rare case the condition has a wide range of symptoms but it usually results in some combination of
Hallucinations delusions and EXT extremely disordered thinking supposedly Morgan remembered having hallucinations as young as 3 years old um she would see ghosts at night that would appear in her bedroom they would hover over her bed pull her hair and bite her arms she also saw Majestic unicorns and
Even believed that one of her friends was a pegasus other times she was visited by Harry Potter characters and later she convinced herself that she had Vulcan mind powers like in the TV show Star Trek so it’s clear that she you know through Harry Potter Star Trek in know Slenderman it’s clear that
A lot of her delusions were being pulled from the media yeah and before the stabbing she was genuinely convinced that her life and the lives of her family members were being threatened by slender investigators also found Barbie dolls inside Morgan’s bedroom and they had strange markings on their bodies so
Of their hands and feet were cut off in her notebooks they found endless sketches of Slenderman and disturbing images that Morgan saw in her day-to-day life especially images that she got from the internet and in the end they determined that she truly believed that Bella needed to be killed and that Slenderman
Had ordered her to do it it was also later revealed that Morgan’s dad Matt also had schizophrenia and the illness is known to be genetic even though schizophrenia affects only 1% of the population it’s believed that it’s 90% heritable according to the National Institutes of Health so it’s a high
Chance that you can get it from a parent um but the difference was that for her dad he’s been treated and hospitalized four times but he’s also claimed that especially in that HBO documentary I remember him talking about it he’s he’s said that he’s learned how to manage it
Over the years and he can have these hallucinations but he knows how to recognize the difference between something that’s real and something that’s not but for Morgan those lines were still blurred most likely because she was only 12 and didn’t really understand what she was going through at
The time um and her parents worried that her time in jail would really only exacerbate this condition and in the best case scenario her parents desperately hoped she could go to a psychiatric facility I’m just I’m blown away at at the the thought that she was having hallucinations from basically 3 years
Old yeah birth it seems like yeah which her dad being schizophrenic I wonder but that’s the thing too is like how do you know when to separate your child’s imagination from ual hallucinations and know at what point you should probably seek out help for them I think
That’s why this case is so fascinating because those things seem to overlap you know how do you tell that difference between a kid just having a very creative imagination and something genuinely wrong you know that’s tough I wonder if somebody who suffers from schizophrenia if
What he if he ever thought in his mind I’m sure he he does now in hindsight but that now that she’s been diagnosed with schizophrenia that’s what was actually happening as opposed to maybe at the time he just thought it was you know he didn’t want to think that she could
Potentially have schizophrenia maybe he didn’t know that it was something that she could inherit but I mean it’s it’s it’s always easier to look at things in hindsight and be like you know should have could have done this should have done that yeah and there’s you know she was also 12 which
They the mega Clinic says you know under 13 super rare they probably were like there’s no I wonder if there’s any rare cases of it starting even sooner though right yeah that’s that’s really I mean it’s a giant mystery yeah as a fan of lights out you’re probably very interested in real life
Horror stories I know I am and maybe you’re wanting more content surrounding that topic so today I’m here to tell you about a podcast called a ghost ruined my life with Eli Roth from Travel Channel on his podcast you’ll hear the real life stories of people have been through terrifying confrontations with the
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Whose lives have been ravaged by a ghost demon or Sinister entity each episode focuses on one person’s story handpicked and introduced by Eli and ret told by the victims themselves they talk about some of the most terrifying unexplainable events they’ve experienced and now you can listen to a new season of all new
Real life stories of Terror on a ghost ruined my life you can listen to a ghost ruined my life with Eli Roth wherever you get your podcast check it out is definitely chilling while in jail Morgan was kept in a Cell by herself but while she was isolated
She knows her hallucinations kept her company she spent a lot of her time constructing a dollhouse out of paper she carefully tore small pieces of paper to make walls and Furniture she haded tiny details to laptops and TVs and each piece of furniture was unique and carefully designed the hallucinations
Spoke with her throughout her stay in jail even after everything Morgan still talked about how she loved Bella and still thought of her as a friend and all she wanted was to keep her friends but while in jail it became even harder to socialize with anyone Morgan
And Ana were only allowed visits by their parents once every 2 weeks they couldn’t visit with anyone else especially each other about a year after the stabbing Payton had physically recovered from her wounds she had spent a week in the hospital right after the stabbing and it took several more months
For her wounds to fully heal scars covered her body and she still dealt with the emotional trauma of what happened around the same time the court determined that the crimes were violent premeditated and a personal offense the judge had considered the age and brain development of the two girls and he
Ordered that they should stay in adult Court instead of juvenile court which ah feel like I have to disagree with that in this case like it’s like why have a juvenile court if you’re not if you’re not going to use it and and I guess reasons is the violent you know
Violent the crime is but even then it’s like it shouldn’t just automatically push you into the adult Court like that just seems very unfair and a complete waste of the juvenile court system agreed I don’t know why they why they do that and I I understand the severity of
The crime but and I don’t want to you know treat it with brevity but she didn’t die there was no murder victim here as as heavy as this case is we do I think that should have been taken more into account as well um and yeah like they did do something
Completely terrible but I don’t really understand I it has to it’s probably has to do with state law I’m assuming that they was keep them in a delt court and they had to be they had to prove why they should be in juvenile court rather than the other way around which you
Would think would be standard the whole system is just broken I me just a lot of it just doesn’t make any sense and I feel like a lot of Judges have too much power to to sway things one way or another and it seems like it’s not always just the evidence it’s perhaps
How the judge feels about the case you know definitely both girls were kept in jail but for Morgan this didn’t really bother her at one point she said she didn’t want to go outside anymore anyway Morgan was later moved to a state hospital where she volunteered to take
Anticho medication Ana was held in the county jail for juveniles so they’re being held in Juvenile jail and yet they’re being tried in adult Court make that make sense mhm meanwhile the woods where Bella was stabbed was cleared out and leveled in 2017 about 3 years after
The stabbings Ana pled guilty to being a party to attempted second deegree homicide a jury then found her not guilty due to mental disease or defect however she was sentenced to 25 years to life involving at least 3 years of locked confinement and involuntary treatment in a state psychiatric
Institute she was also required to have communal supervision until age 37 Morgan accepted a plea deal and agreed to be evaluated by psychiatrist to determine how long she should be placed in a mental hospital she later pled guilty but was also found not guilty by reason of mental disease or defect in
2018 she was then given the maximum sentence of 40 Years to Life in a state hospital she would also have to have at least 3 years locked confinement in addition to involuntary treatment in a state psychiatric Institute until complete resolution of her symptoms or until age 53 whichever came first which
Is the fact that the the court systems are are literally saying until complete resolution of your symptoms like obviously your Sy and maybe that just means management of the symptoms but as we’ve seen in other cases like the Vince Lee case where they said they completely resolved the the disease basically and
Then released him is just wild to me that they’re saying things like this and it seems like that verbage can be interpreted yeah interpreted different ways this would then be followed by continued communal supervision periodic reevaluations with possible reinstitution and further treatment as needed she would have the opportunity to
Petition for her release but would remain under institutional care for the duration of her sentence she was then placed in Winnebago Mental Health Institute making her the youngest patient there when Ana was 19 she appealed to the court to be released from the state hospital and it was
Determined that she was still diagnosed with post-traumatic stress disorder major depression and personality disorder but the doctor said she no longer had a psychotic or delusional disorder in the letter she wrote she said quote I am sorry and deeply regretful for the agony and pain and
Fear I have caused not only to pton and her family pton being Bella but my community as well I take full responsibility for my actions she also said quote I hate my actions on May 31st but through countless hours of therapy I no longer hate myself for them she then
Went on to promise to comply with any and all rules that the court and her treatment team would give her and one of her last statements was quote I’m not saying I’m done growing changing evolving or adapting I just can’t do it here anymore and then on July 1st 2021
Ana was granted release under several conditions after spending over 3 years in a state hospital she’d be under supervision until the age of 37 but she would live with her dad and wear a 24-hour GPS tracking device she’d also have limited internet use and not be allowed on any social media platforms
One last condition was that she would take medication go to counseling sessions weekly she was officially released on September 13th 2021 as for Morgan though all of her later appeals were rejected in August 2023 so very recently she withdrew her latest petition for conditional release
Today she’s 21 years old and is still in Winnebago Mental Health Institute being treated for her conditions as for Payton or Bella she recently opened up about the stabbings even though the Slendermen was once the scariest thing to her friends her friends became the scariest thing to her after the stabbing she had
Never felt such a deep sense of betrayal at such an early age but she has slowly learned to recover she has friends again but she keeps at a safe distance and when she thinks of her wounds she says that her scars are just another part of her now and hopefully they’ll Fade with
Time as of 2022 she said the attack inspired her to go into the medical field and she is now in med school and after everything she said that even if she ever met Morgan face to face again she would thank her after what happened pton now believes she has a sense of
Direction and a purpose in life to help others through her trauma and betrayal she’s learned to stay positive and move on go payon that’s the best possible outcome I think from this this scenario I agree is to turn such a Negative experience into positive and Inspire hope and and
Change in your life and ultimately go on to help others I love that for many people Slender Man is just a scary meme that’s fun to photoshop into pictures make creepy fan art or Internet fanfiction stories pass around to each other but for Morgan and Ana Slender Man
Wasn’t just a hobby he was a ghoul that haunted their nightmares and manipulated the way they thought it was a creature who threatened to kill their families and ultimately this is a story of two girls who struggled was separating fiction from reality so many things to take away from
From this case it’s hard to even know where to start I know we were just talking before we started this podcast on a a little off mic we were talking about internet access especially with children internet literacy is is Big um how do we monitor that how do we
Successfully teach younger children um how to use the Internet it’s a huge scary place right I think also I mean yeah educating your children is the number one thing you can do in talking to them and also knowing what your children are doing online it’s it’s very hard
And I know it’s a daunting task and as a parent myself I’m I’m already starting to research what tools are out there and I mean for me it doesn’t feel like such a hard thing to do and overcome because I do have a tech background I’m pretty you
Know I was a essentially an ethical hacker for for a little while so I I know I know my way around the internet and tools and I know how to you know know about spyware and there’s plenty of things that you can do to kind of
Monitor your kids usage and is that what you’re doing on my work computer surprise I I monitor everybody’s or computers no not on not on that level well you maybe yeah you should be yeah I should be I will after this but I think it really comes down to like
As a parent your job is to know what your kids are doing especially what they’re doing online and and because your phone your computer is essentially an extension of yourself at this point point I mean we’re we’re so close to the singularity where we merge with with
Technology and machine in a way that there is no separation from it anymore it’s you know the day that it’s embedded into our skin and and to our eyeballs I mean that’s going to create a whole another issue but this isn’t a problem that’s going away it’s a problem that’s
Going to get worse and worse and worse and I hope that more and more tools come out and there’s ways to combat this because I think most of the issues that that happen especially with with young children stem from their internet usage and it’s so easy to be manipulated
Online it’s so easy to be taken advantage of by others online I mean it’s the internet is a is a wonderful thing but it’s also created a world where people can be anonymous and pretend to be somebody that they’re not and it’s very easy to become trusting of
Somebody online and be manipulated into thinking that something is real when it’s not and just with where technology is going and and the technology around deep fakes is very concerning and images and video are only going to become more and more convincing to us and there’s going to be a point where
We’re not able to separate what’s computer generated and what is real and that’s what truly terrifies me because at that point what do you do yeah if fake videos look the same as real videos I mean some of these Slender Man videos to a young child I could see how they
Would believe that this is legit footage this is found footage of somebody’s encounter with Slender yeah and like you were saying like who to trust because you don’t know who’s on the other hand end behind certain things but in this case it’s it’s that you’re trusting that
These stories are real like fiction is real right so we even have a problem with just trusting what is fact which I guess is not anything new to the internet right the whole concept of uh fake news misinformation and things like that so we can actually see how it’s
Tangibly affecting kids now also I just want to note this is a this is really highly specific to this case as well because Morgan had a mental illness so it’s kind of all those problems with the internet are now yeah because of that exactly she’s already dealing with the the delusions that this
Disorder this disease causes and then on top of that the internet is now get multiplied like you said so I think the only thing in that scenario you can do is like and her parents I mean they claim to have been very involved they’re like how much more
Involved could I have been if I’m not watching every single move that she makes and I and I think that’s true to some extent I do think that as a parent especially when your kids are are minors you have ultimately the responsibility of what they do online and what what content
They’re consuming falls back on you and if you do give them iPads and stuff like I’m just surprised that they didn’t do anything after all the you know the dolls and the sketches and things like that like look through your kids stuff and there’s this whole conversation around like does your child
Have privacy like how much privacy should your child have and I think privacy is important and your child should have some privacy but at the same time when it comes to the internet that’s where I draw the line it’s like in all other parts of
Life like I don’t want to be the parent that’s like reading all my kids text messages helicopter parents yeah you don’t want to be like overbearing because that also leads to issues that leads to your child rebelling against you and and potentially doing worse things as a result of that so it’s like
It’s it’s very difficult and I’m not looking forward to that CU I can already sense myself being like an overprotective person yeah and not not a hover child cuz I know what that’s like but but knowing more than I should and potentially running across things that I
Want to bring up with my daughter that I don’t you know don’t because that could damage the relationship that we have and also the trust that she has in me and that’s that’s the hard part is like but I think it’s also at the very least being aware of
What’s going on and then being creative with how you go about dealing with it and like if your kid is diving into seemingly only dark content all the time and it’s getting darker and darker and you’re seeing that progression being made I feel it’s your job as a parent to
Be like to sit them down and at least talk talk through like why you know kind of play therapist a little bit and then actually like bring them to a therapist and and try to seek out counseling or something like that with a third party who might be able to get more
Information and then potentially diagnose them with some some of these disorders that they had earlier on where it can be nipped in the butt so to speak and actually be treated before things sort of spiral out of control and I think that that’s the challenge that their their parents ran into is they
Didn’t know at what point to get involved or maybe they were busy and just didn’t weren’t able to have that time to to talk to them and so things just spiral out of control but I do think parents ultimately a lot of the responsibility here especially in this case like they should have
Been at least at least talking to their kids about what they were looking at instead of just like brushing it off because I think I do believe personally that you go down that dark path the dark path only gets darker and as you get older and I know from personal experience
Based on you know through movies and media that I’ve consumed it’s like you do become desens ties to dark dark things and then you want to see something darker and then something darker and then couple that with disorders or schizophrenia especially or any other sort of mental illness there’s always a
Possibility of that getting Amplified even further than just somebody who doesn’t have you know anything working against them necessarily mentally I just think that is a that is a a very difficult path to come back from at some point I think it was I can’t remember I think it was a Nisa in
This case um she had posted something like a a rat or a mouse um being eaten by something or like some animals attacking each other and I think she posted that possibly on her Facebook page and to me that would be obviously everything’s you know 2020
In hindsight but that seems to be a pretty red flag for a child to be posting something like that and yeah I mean that is just is it just curiosity though is like yeah and it’s like the same thing you watch a nature documentary you’ll come across animals
Attacking other animals so it’s like I think it’s just in hindsight that those things are more clear but I also think um trust seems to be a a central theme in this case and like you brought that up especially with monitoring kids uh whatever now I think we both agree that
Being a tyrant with your kids internet usage is really good but yeah you do have to find that fine line because if my parents were just going through my text messages or something when I was you know a pre-teen I think I got my phone when I was 12 and uh half my
Parents were just going through all my text messages that would certainly break trust so I think it’s a very fine line um to weave between the relationship of parents and their kids I think the other thing too is that there’s no rating system for the internet right yeah like
Growing when we were growing up a movie was rated R right it’s rated R you can’t get in you can’t see it there’s no other way to see it other than going to the movie theater my older brother to go rent it yeah until it was released and but to rented even you
Would need an older person like you couldn’t get it was much harder to get access to content above your age level and there was a whole reason that the the that rating system was created right there’s rated G General audiences PG Parental Guidance PG-13 you know content that may not be
Suitable for children under the age of 13 and so you think they’re 12 years old and they’re consuming rated R content Y at at 12 years old and I think that really plays into it because I just don’t think at that age you’re you’re mature enough your brain is developed
Enough to really be able to handle the seriousness of of that content and and truly wrap your mind around the the reality of it and the the consequences of those actions and things like that it’s it’s it just becomes this kind of like you’re fascinated sure you’re curious sure but you’re not able
To fully understand the ramifications of of what that content is what what it does to you psychologically and and ultimately how it affects the people which it is about especially the violent content right yes espe me rated R what 17 and older or 18 and older I think 17
17 and older so I saw it as like a rite of passage when my parents allowed me I think one of my first R-rated movies was Saving Private Ryan and I think I was maybe 13 or 14 I remember feeling sick to my stomach cuz that that’s a very brutal movie um
But or like the Matrix was one of the first like kind of more adult movies that I could see but yeah I was I felt like I was breaking new ground like I was like my parents finally see me mature enough to access something like this and my internet I don’t know about
Your internet usage growing up my internet usage we had the it was like the AOL family version what is it what is K kidss online oh kids yeah that’s what it was called yeah it had its own own like program like exactly web browser to access and it would monitor it would
Send emails to your parents with all the sites that you visited and it had like parental blocks that’s something I do believe in though that’s what I was on until I yeah like it’s so and that’s that’s like number one step and obviously your kid will probably go elsewhere there’s
Wi-Fi everywhere and there there’s they will probably figure out a way to do it I once I found out I could just download Mozilla and go to that I was like okay well I’m just gonna bypass now like on pretty much every every router that you
Buy now you know whatever is putting out your Wi-Fi you can set up your firewall to block content and block specific websites and things like that so that’s like what I plan to do is I have parental blocks on just a category as a whole and then also it pings you if
Anybody tries to visit that I should do that for here at the office too I would love to see I know I’ve seen Danny on some weird [ __ ] but like the I think technology can be used to to combat some of these issues and I just think a lot
Of parents a don’t want to fool around with it or B don’t know how to do it and so ultimately they just don’t do anything they give their kids free range access to everything and I think that’s where you run into issues because I want to I wouldn’t want my 12-year-old kid to
Be on Creepy Pasta like n it’s just there’s darn [ __ ] on that era too it was like I remember the whole appeal of creepy pasta was to make it seem real that was everyone was just trying to make it feel as real as possible and up
Each other you know what I mean it’s kind of this competition to like who creates the creepiest content and then the images that like those images are terrifying they are they scare me even as an yeah like I don’t even like to go on there cuz like some of the images I
Run across I’m like what the [ __ ] is this this is terrifying and the think that 12-year-olds are on there consuming it day and night and obsessing over it and then also believing that it’s real is just is a is just a recipe for disaster yeah so is there a simple
Solution to this no but I do think education awareness and also using the tools at your disposal so many parents don’t use the tools that all of the phones and apps and everything else have built-in parental controls but parents just don’t spend the time to do it and they don’t or they
Think that it’s going to negatively affect the relationship on their kids and and I’m thankful for doing what what we do because it I have so much knowledge around this subject and I have so so many things I plan to share with my child and and help them understand
From a young age and educate them as early on of like hey this is why you don’t want to go there this is there this is the I think the biggest thing is telling your kids you can’t do something and then not explaining to them why yeah
And then they’re like why aren’t you why can’t I go there and they don’t understand because kids are smarter than you think and I think too many parents treat their kids like they’re dumb or they don’t I mean they were 12 years Ana and Morgan are 12 years old they seem
Fairly mature to me and like if you actually sat down and explain to them like hey hey guys like this is this is fiction and showed them like got on the computer and did those Google searches of Jeff the Killer and we’re like you see how this doesn’t like go to anywhere
Like this is made up and and spent that time to really like kind of not not just shoot down their delusions but actually kind of like prove to them that their delusions are are exactly that that maybe we might have had a different outcome there it intervened a little bit
More there wasn’t enough intervention that happened from the parental side and I’m not saying this to shame the parents cuz it’s every what a one thing I have learned as a parent is that you you have no right to shame any other parent for how they parent their kids because
Everybody’s different everybody’s got a different experience and so by no means am I doing that I’m just saying from my If This Were Me in My Shoes I would have tried to intervene in some way and tried to educate them on I also think it might be a generational thing with you because
You know like we grew up with the internet and access to it where maybe you know an’s and Morgan’s parents they were a bit older so they just didn’t really maybe just they didn’t understand what could what could go wrong and obviously this is like basically worst
Case scenario you would never think that even even of all the disturbing content on the internet having it actually manifest into a a physical problem is is another thing as well so yeah maybe it was just a generational thing they didn’t really understand I don’t know I
Could give them the benefit of the doubt on that one yeah and I mean thank God this one turned out with a positive ending to it and she survived I mean to be stabbed that many times and and not die is honestly a miracle incredible and to crawl to survive she
Just went in survival mode and I mean tough and in school that’s the best case badass like just big big kudos to to pton for for making it out of that situation surviving and going on to to now help people is is truly amazing
So so yeah I mean we could go I could go on and on about this all day there’s so many things to to talk about but we’re going to go ahead and wrap up things there let us know your thoughts on this do you think the the punishments were
Were just do you think they should have been tried in juvenile court definitely want to hear your your opinions as usual let us know in the comments if you’re watching on YouTube you’re on Spotify or any other platforms join us on YouTube um YouTube is now becoming our favorite
Place to hang out with you guys and for those of you to consume the podcast but otherwise join us on social media at lights Outcast Instagram Tik Tok and Facebook well we’ll see you guys next time until then lights out everybody Oh
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